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Author Topic:   Gender and Humor
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 151 of 269 (558909)
05-05-2010 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by Modulous
05-05-2010 1:06 PM


Re: Has Hitchens not been brought up yet?
It would be interesting to do a survey
OK. Let's do it.
First find how people rate sense of humour highly as a relatively important feature in a sexual partner.
Yes. Definitely. In fact even a type of sense of humour. If you cannot be outrageously silly with people that you regularly get naked with then who can you be super silly with?
Of those that do, ask why is that important.
I honestly think that people who just aren't at all funny would be boring to spend that much time and be intimate with.
It would be interesting to see if there was a sex based difference between "I want someone who can make me laugh" and "I want someone who will laugh at my jokes." type answers.
Good point. A bit of both but if I am honest I suspect that I get more of a kick from me instigating and driving the "hilarity". But she has gotta be more than just appreciative. She has gotta be able to join in!! No mere spectators of stupidity allowed. But I cannot deny some male ego in this area.
It would be even more fascinating if we could tell if they were telling the truth or not
If we are gonna be publicly psycho-analysed I hope I am not the only one who takes part in your survey

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Modulous, posted 05-05-2010 1:06 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 152 of 269 (558911)
05-05-2010 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Straggler
05-05-2010 1:20 PM


Re: Has Hitchens not been brought up yet?
If we are gonna be publicly psycho-analysed I hope I am not the only one who takes part in your survey
I'm in.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Straggler, posted 05-05-2010 1:20 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Straggler, posted 05-05-2010 4:47 PM dronestar has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 153 of 269 (558931)
05-05-2010 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee
05-05-2010 12:22 PM


Re: Wanda Sykes
Is Wanda Sykes the one who occasionally appears in Curb Your Enthusiasm, always giving LD a hard time?
Yeah, that's her. She's a funny actress and her stand up is very funny. She does have writers (I only know this because a friend of mine is a writer for her) but she used to write for Eddie Murphy back in the day. So I guess it goes both ways.
I do like her stand up though. I wouldn't go out of my way to watch it but if I caught it I'd listen to some of it.
- Oni

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onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 154 of 269 (558940)
05-05-2010 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by dronestar
05-05-2010 11:00 AM


Re: Analyzing humor, seriously.
So, it seems funny stand-up material (which could have been co-written or ghost written), performed/honed flawlessly over time can be successfully delivered by not-so-funny-but-excellent-performers/actors.
No, not stand up material. Sketch, plays, sitcom, movies - those genre's can be written by others and performed by good actors.
Stand up is different. Exception being someone like Wanda Sykes who has worked clubs for over 20 years and can NOW take someone elses material and perform it. Lots of comics do this. Dane Cook bought material, I mean, how else would he come up with 2 new 1 hour specials in a year, while still doing movies, etc.? He couldn't, so he buys it from other comics. For the 2nd Blue Collar Comedy Tour, Ron White was offering up to $10,000 for 10 minutes worth of material. But these are pro's who can take the material and perform it. BUT - if you'll notice, Ron White was better on the 1st Blue Collar Tour and Dane Cook was better in the early 90's with his own material. So there is a clear difference. Just like Eddie Murphy's Delirious was better than Raw. Robert Townsend, Keenan Ivory Wayans and Wanda Sykes (and Eddie Murphy too) wrote Raw - Delirious was ALL Murphy. But again, a pro can pull it off.
But say someone like Christina Applegate - NEVER will she be able to perform stand up written by anyone. Unless she did stand up for many, many years, then maybe.
If this is true, maybe stand up comedy should be somewhat less weighted to measure GENDER humor, because, for reasons above, it does NOT NECESSARILY show quick wit . . .
???
Stand up, performed at clubs, with a live, drinking, talkative audience is ALL about quick wit. In fact, there's comics like Ian Bagg who don't do anything on stage but improvised stuff. He doesn't go up with material. He's one of the quickest comics I've seen work a room. Don Rickles is nothing but quick wit. Robin Williams too.
Can you explain, if I didn't understand what you meant?
In your opinion, how funny would your examples of funny women (Sarah Silverman, Andi Smith, Tina Fey) be in interviews or as talk show hosts?
They'd be great.
Compared to Rivers, Ellen Degeneress, Rosie O-Donnel?
They'd be great too. Experience at interviewing helps of course but I think all these women would do well.
Alas, should quick-wit be the overall measure of funny?
IMO, it has nothing to do with the mechanics of comedy and EVERYTHING to do with audience reaction. Female comics don't do as well as male comics with audeinces. Some do, yes, I agree. But for the most part its a male dominated environment because men seem to be better at making audiences laugh.
Just look here at everyone's favorite stand up comics. No one put in their top 5 a woman.
This is the list of Comedy Central's top 100 comics:
quote:
1. Richard Pryor
2. George Carlin
3. Lenny Bruce
4. Woody Allen
5. Chris Rock
6. Steve Martin
7. Rodney Dangerfield
8. Bill Cosby
9. Roseanne Barr
10. Eddie Murphy
11. Johnny Carson
12. Jerry Seinfeld
13. Robin Williams
14. Bob Newhart
15. David Letterman
16. Ellen DeGeneres
17. Don Rickles
18. Jonathan Winters
19. Bill Hicks
20. Sam Kinison
21. Dennis Miller
22. Robert Klein
23. Steven Wright
24. Redd Foxx
25. Bob Hope
26. Ray Romano
27. Jay Leno
28. Jack Benny
29. Milton Berle
30. Garry Shandling
31. George Burns
32. Albert Brooks
33. Andy Kaufman
34. Buddy Hackett
35. Phyllis Diller
36. Jim Carrey
37. Martin Lawrence
38. Bill Maher
39. Billy Crystal
40. Mort Sahl
41. Jon Stewart
42. Flip Wilson
43. Dave Chappelle
44. Joan Rivers
45. Richard Lewis
46. Adam Sandler
47. Henny Youngman
48. Tim Allen
49. Freddie Prinze
50. Denis Leary
51. Lewis Black
52. Damon Wayans
53. David Brenner
54. DL Hughley
55. Alan King
56. Colin Quinn
57. Richard Jeni
58. Larry Miller
59. Gilbert Gottfried
60. Jeff Foxworthy
61. Bobcat Goldthwait
62. Eddie Griffin
63. Jackie Mason
64. Richard Belzer
65. Cedrick the Enter.
66. Shelley Berman
67. Kevin Pollak
68. Dave Attell
69. Pat Cooper
70. Wanda Sykes
71. Red Buttons
72. Bernie Mac
73. Billy Connolly
74. Paul Rodriguez
75. Eddie Izzard
76. Robert Schimmel
77. Paul Reiser
78. Sinbad
79. Dom Irrera
80. Bobby Slayton
81. Dick Gregory
82. Howie Mandel
83. Norm MacDonald
84. Drew Carey
85. David Cross
86. Jay Mohr...boo-urns!!!
87. Brett Butler
88. Paula Poundstone
89. Kevin James
90. Dana Carvey
91. Jim Breuer
92. Louie Anderson
93. George Wallace
94. David Alan Grier
95. Andrew 'Dice' Clay
96. Joey Bishop
97. Sandra Bernhard
98. Louis CK
99. Janeane Garofalo
100. Gallagher
9 are women, and Sandra Bernhard did stand up maybe 5 years early in her career when Budd Friedman first opened the LA club and was letting anyone on stage. That's back when Andy Kaufman and his horrible act were allowed on stage. Now a days that shit would NOT fly. In fact, when comics started to get paid Kaufman said that's the worse thing that could have happened to comedy, because now they were expected to do well.
Plus, other than Roseanne Barr, Ellen DeGeneres and Wanda Sykes, I don't think the others are funny stand up comics.
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by dronestar, posted 05-05-2010 11:00 AM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by Straggler, posted 05-05-2010 4:18 PM onifre has replied
 Message 163 by dronestar, posted 05-06-2010 9:12 AM onifre has not replied
 Message 167 by Modulous, posted 05-06-2010 1:00 PM onifre has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 155 of 269 (558945)
05-05-2010 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by onifre
05-05-2010 4:00 PM


Re: Analyzing humor, seriously.
This is the list of Comedy Central top 100 comics:
Who voted? Predominantly men? Do you think it makes any difference? Do you think women find female comics funnier than men find them?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by onifre, posted 05-05-2010 4:00 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by onifre, posted 05-05-2010 4:53 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 156 of 269 (558949)
05-05-2010 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by dronestar
05-05-2010 1:27 PM


"I'm In"
I'm in.
In terms of doing the survey yourself? In which case please do (so that I am not the only gullible idiot to fall for Mod's attempt to embarass us all)
I'm in.
Or do you mean that you are "in" to psycho-analysing me? In which case - YIPES!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by dronestar, posted 05-05-2010 1:27 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by dronestar, posted 05-06-2010 9:29 AM Straggler has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 157 of 269 (558950)
05-05-2010 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by Straggler
05-05-2010 4:18 PM


Re: Analyzing humor, seriously.
Who voted? Predominantly men? Do you think it makes any difference? Do you think women find female comics funnier than men find them?
Fine then, name 10 more female STAND UP comics that didn't make the list...
The only one I see is Silverman, and the reason (I assume) is because she's still very young.
In fact, name 5 more female stand up comics that didn't make the list. Anyone, not just you Straggler.
Comedy Central would not be bias on this, they just don't exist. And remember, for any 1 female comic you mention, someone from the list would have to go.
My problem with the list is they put Roseanne Barr #9 before comics like Hicks, Seinfeld, Kinison, Murphy, Newhart, etc. I'd say if anything they were MORE than generous.
And here's the panel that discussed it (Greg Giraldo, Dom Irerra, Judy Gold, Mario Joyner, Phyllis Diller, Richard Jeni, Pat Cooper, David Brenner, and Richard Lewis) included women, who agreed with the list.
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Straggler, posted 05-05-2010 4:18 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Straggler, posted 05-05-2010 5:11 PM onifre has replied
 Message 178 by Rrhain, posted 05-07-2010 9:56 PM onifre has not replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 158 of 269 (558953)
05-05-2010 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by onifre
05-05-2010 4:53 PM


Re: Analyzing humor, seriously.
Who voted? Predominantly men? Do you think it makes any difference? Do you think women find female comics funnier than men find them?
Fine then, name 10 more female STAND UP comics that didn't make the list...
Whooah!! I was genuinely asking!! Not making a question based point. Don't be so sensitive. You big girl you
My problem with the list is they put Roseanne Barr #9 before comics like Hicks, Seinfeld, Kinison, Murphy, Newhart, etc. I'd say if anything they were MORE than generous.
Yeah - That is friggin outrageous.
And here's the panel that discussed it (Greg Giraldo, Dom Irerra, Judy Gold, Mario Joyner, Phyllis Diller, Richard Jeni, Pat Cooper, David Brenner, and Richard Lewis) included women, who agreed with the list.
Well as a comedically challenged male I can only empathise with my sisters.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by onifre, posted 05-05-2010 4:53 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by onifre, posted 05-05-2010 5:52 PM Straggler has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 159 of 269 (558957)
05-05-2010 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by Straggler
05-05-2010 5:11 PM


Re: Analyzing humor, seriously.
Whooah!! I was genuinely asking!! Not making a question based point. Don't be so sensitive. You big girl you
Sorry little lady, I didn't mean to come off upset.
I was just trying to help you answer the question yourself.
Well as a comedically challenged male I can only empathise with my sisters.
Naw dawg, you one of us, you're funny. But you're at your best when you wigga up and deliver those sick lyrics.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Straggler, posted 05-05-2010 5:11 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
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onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 160 of 269 (558959)
05-05-2010 6:02 PM


Patrice Oneal schools brawd on funny
Here's a video (sorry Drone) of Patrice Oneal breaking down what can be funny. Not gender related but I thought it was semi on topic.
Btw, I hate this lady.
- Oni

Replies to this message:
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 Message 177 by Rrhain, posted 05-07-2010 9:49 PM onifre has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 161 of 269 (558960)
05-05-2010 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by onifre
05-05-2010 5:52 PM


Re: Analyzing humor, seriously.
Sorry little lady, I didn't mean to come off upset.
I forgive you. Can we share lipstick now?
Naw dawg, you one of us, you're funny.
Aw shucks......
But you're at your best when you wigga up and deliver those sick lyrics.
If Petrophysics keeps up his rabid message rating campaign and Nwr keeps pissing me off with his inanity I may be inspired to pick up that mic again. More to the point aiki has registered her approval and you know us "dawgs" are suckers for impressin the laideees
Stay Happy

This message is a reply to:
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Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 162 of 269 (559001)
05-06-2010 4:07 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by onifre
05-05-2010 10:06 AM


onifre responds to me:
quote:
And except for Silverman, the rest are NOT funny.
Says you. Their success points to a different conclusion.
Thus, we show that the adage of "there's no accounting for taste" has some merit to it.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by onifre, posted 05-05-2010 10:06 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 163 of 269 (559030)
05-06-2010 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by onifre
05-05-2010 4:00 PM


Re: Analyzing humor, seriously.
Oni,
IMO, it has nothing to do with the mechanics of comedy and EVERYTHING to do with audience reaction.
Thanks for the detailed and enlightening reply. While you corrected my misperceptions, I am still thinking of the Nietzsche quote:
"Those who know, but don't do, don't really know."
Thus, no matter how detailed your replies, in the end, I still can't quite imagine how comics do it. I am somewhat envious, as I think the feeling of wowing a BIG crowd must be like some super-seasoned-curly-fries-orgasm. You are lucky.
Thanks for the top 100 list. I think it stands as evidence that woman are perceived as less funny than men. I should have included that in my original post.
I see Albert Brooks as # 32. I think he is very funny, witty guy. Perhaps his movie, "Lost in America'" would be in my top 10 comedy list. Henny Youngman, only #47? Go figure.
drnstr

This message is a reply to:
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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 164 of 269 (559036)
05-06-2010 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by Straggler
05-05-2010 4:47 PM


Re: "I'm In"
In terms of doing the survey yourself? In which case please do (so that I am not the only gullible idiot to fall for Mod's attempt to embarass us all)
I had hoped Mod was gonna create the list, he seemed to be into the topic, but I'd be happy to try. I think the way the questions are structured need to be accurately phrased. Why don't I run them by you, Mod, or anyone else who cares to fine tune their usefulness before we give it a bit of the go. Should it be in a new thread?
Or do you mean that you are "in" to psycho-analysing me? In which case - YIPES!!
Orrrr, perhaps I just want to coordinate what we are wearing for our big coming-out-of-the-closet party. Stripes or paisley dear?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Straggler, posted 05-05-2010 4:47 PM Straggler has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 165 of 269 (559046)
05-06-2010 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by Rrhain
05-06-2010 4:07 AM


Says you. Their success points to a different conclusion.
Well of course "says me," this is a subjective opinion.
If success had anything to do with them being funny then Carrot Top is hilarious!
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Rrhain, posted 05-06-2010 4:07 AM Rrhain has not replied

  
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