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Author Topic:   Gender and Humor
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 160 of 269 (558959)
05-05-2010 6:02 PM


Patrice Oneal schools brawd on funny
Here's a video (sorry Drone) of Patrice Oneal breaking down what can be funny. Not gender related but I thought it was semi on topic.
Btw, I hate this lady.
- Oni

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-06-2010 10:41 AM onifre has not replied
 Message 177 by Rrhain, posted 05-07-2010 9:49 PM onifre has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 165 of 269 (559046)
05-06-2010 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by Rrhain
05-06-2010 4:07 AM


Says you. Their success points to a different conclusion.
Well of course "says me," this is a subjective opinion.
If success had anything to do with them being funny then Carrot Top is hilarious!
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Rrhain, posted 05-06-2010 4:07 AM Rrhain has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 168 of 269 (559076)
05-06-2010 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Modulous
05-06-2010 1:00 PM


Re: Analyzing humor, seriously.
The female impersonators are almost as well represented as the actual women!
That's brilliant!
I do have some issues with the list (other than not recognizing a few names). Carlin seems far down on the list, he should be within the first 5 IMO. And Demetri Martin and Emo Phillips should not be anywhere near a list, lol. But the US list had Gallahger so I guess we're even.
The list has Hicks at #4 which I must agree with. The US list had him too far down.
Thanks for sharing this, I'm going to look up the comics I don't recoginze.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Modulous, posted 05-06-2010 1:00 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by Modulous, posted 05-06-2010 2:28 PM onifre has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 172 of 269 (559116)
05-06-2010 6:24 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by Modulous
05-06-2010 2:28 PM


Re: Analyzing humor, seriously.
Well....I don't find Hicks at all funny :\ - he has moments where I smirk but it doesn't compare to even an unknown at a comedy club. But apparently I'm in a serious minority on that.
Yeah a very small minority, but not uncommon to hear. I have a few friends who don't like him either...I should say, I had a few friends that didn't like him. They are no longer allowed to speak to me.
A little home-bias is to be expected, but how many people on that list of Greatest Comics of all time are not US/Canadians?
Yeah I noticed that too. But except for the famous ones, the US isn't exposed to UK stand up until they make it on a stage in the US.
For what it's worth if you were tempted to see if Brits could put any decent female standups, I think they over-rated them all. Victoria Wood writes some funny songs, though witty and catchy songs about being a middle aged woman are difficult to relate to. Likewise, I enjoy Jo Brand just being Jo Brand because she is a smart and interesting person with a clever and fast sense of humour. But I don't rate her as a performer of prepared comedy at all since a huge amount of material is basically her pointing out in a variety of different ways that she is fat,old and ugly.
And Jenny Eclair is just a gobshite.
I think we can have a consensus on women and stand up then. I would have to agree that most of the women in the US list were over-rated too. Even someone like Roseanne, who many consider funny, isn't as funny as many male stand up comics who didn't make the list. I think the list took into consideration their individual career achievements too, not just their stand up.
I have no idea how Demetri Martin managed to show up on the UK radar...I've never seen his standup stuff.
He had one hour special that was ehh, ok I guess. He is in that alternative genre of stand up, like music acts or props. But funnier than him would have been Stephen Lynch. Even though I don't think Lynch should be on the list of "greatest" he is still a lot funnier than Demetri.
As for Emo Philips, I have to say I have enjoyed some of his routines though I haven't seen anything original for a long time.
I did when I was younger, but I've seen him at clubs (he's still working, esp. in Vegas) and it's not what it used to be for me.
I looked up a picture to see if I recognized him - thought RAZD had taken up smashing fruit and closed the browser window. Fair play.
Oh I hope RAZD sees this post, that was funny dude.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
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onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 173 of 269 (559117)
05-06-2010 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by nwr
05-06-2010 4:10 PM


Re: Analyzing humor, seriously.
Perhaps that reflects the difference between British humour and American humor.
The weird thing is, with someone like Hicks, it shouldn't. Hicks didn't become famous till he hit the UK and for the first time had his act aired on TV uncensored. The Brits LOVED him.
That year he came back to the states and was voted Rolling Stone's comic of the year. Hicks even mocked that he was gone all year and won US comic of the year. If that was any indication of where he should take his career he should just be gone forever.
Odd things is it took him dying to get the fame he has now. So his words were kinda true. He's gone forever and that blew up his career.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by nwr, posted 05-06-2010 4:10 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

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onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 179 of 269 (559256)
05-07-2010 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by Rrhain
05-07-2010 9:49 PM


Well, no, not really. It's a video of him getting upset that a bad joke was called out.
Well, no, you're clearly listening with a bias if that's what you're opinion is. All he is saying is that her opinion of what "funny" is is irrelevant because she has nothing to do with the business of being funny.
He could careless about a bad joke being called out, comics call out bad jokes all the time. We make fun of them. Have you ever watched the Joe Rogan vs Carlos Mencia video, where Rogan calls out Mencia for stealing? Just like in science, comics police themselves. So this had nothing to do with a joke. This had to do with that lady thinking she knows what's right and wrong to say on the air because she feels she can speak for the public.
Everything else was him being a sexist prick.
He IS a sexist prick, watch his stand up. He has no problem being up front about it. But that has nothing to do with it. They asked HIM to be on the show not the other way around. They knew who they were bringing on to deal with that twat.
If you cross the line far enough and often enough, then whining that you were "only making a joke" doesn't fly.
Cross the line? What line? Who declared there was a line? What if our lines differ, who's line do we go by?
If you don't like what O & A say on THEIR show then change the station - especially on satellite.
But more important, who the (curse word*) are you to say there is a line to be crossed? That's why jokes are considered "wrong to say," because people think their feelings mean something to the rest of us.
Your right to tell a joke does not come with a right to an audience and someone else's nickel to promote it.
Agreed. But when the market speaks, as in the case with Howard Stern and Opie & Anthony, and people say they like the show and listen, then who are you or anyone else to think your opinion or taste in humor matters?
This is a free speech issue within the context of O & A's show and them being free to do and say whatever they feel is funny on THEIR show over satellite radio. Her taste in humor, or anyone elses, shouldn't interfere with that.
* waiting on the curse word ruling.
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Rrhain, posted 05-07-2010 9:49 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by Rrhain, posted 05-08-2010 5:30 AM onifre has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 181 of 269 (559303)
05-08-2010 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Rrhain
05-08-2010 5:30 AM


Christ dude, did you leave any thoughts out of this post? Here we go with the long posts again.....
All performance is a connection with the audience and if the response is that you've laid a turd, then that's what you've done no matter how much you may believe in your work.
The point is that no one "laid a turd," she simply didn't find it funny and was outraged. Again who cares what she considers funny on a radio show, change the channel and stop being the PC police.
At no time during his rant did he defend the actual joke.
It wasn't his joke to defend, it was Opie & Anthony's joke, and all he said was, they have the right to try and be as funny as they want to be. If it misses then it misses. All jokes have the potential to fail.
Look, I'm very sorry about his penis but until he can show why the joke isn't part of the problem, he's only showing that he's just as much of a sexist prick.
I don't even know what you mean by this, but it's the second dick reference you've made in this post so I'm assuming you have cock on your mind...so I'll just ignore this one.
The joke isn't part of what problem? It's a joke, that the O & A audience that pays for satellite radio didn't seem to be bothered by. Why is this PC cunt making an issue of it when all anyone has to do is change the station?
Which means he has nothing to do with the business of being funny. He wants to be able to spout any vile thought that crosses his mind without there being any consequences to what he's saying. That isn't comedy. That's sociopathy.
This isn't YOUR brand of comedy, Rrhain. Which is cool, no one is forcing you to listen to it. But I love watching Patrice, I've worked with him before, and guess what, women LOVE him too. Its humor done for an audience of adults who chose to watch, stop being a fag about it.
He has 2 HBO specials, he's been invited to the Montreal Comedy Festival numerous times, he has 2 Comedy Central Presents, many CD's...fuck, he was even a cast member in "The Office" a show I'm sure you love. Clearly someone appreciates what he does. Just not you, which again is cool, but no one gives a shit what you like.
There are no consequences in this case, what there is is bitchy, whinny, PC cops trying to make themselves relevant by grasping to anything anyone says and making an issue of it. That's not a consequence to what Patrice or O & A said, it's an annoyance.
I'm reminded of DeGeneres' bit about kidding:
After watching it, I'm reminded why she's not funny.
Instead, they got an antagonizer and the victim.
What?! What is she a victim of dude? She heard something, probably second hand because I'M SURE she's not listening to O & A on a regular basis, then SHE decide to make an issue of it.
She's NOT a victim. She's a person with no life who pretends to care about what the public should be listening to, but she has her own agenda and is clinging to anything she can to make a name for herself.
The audience. They're the final authority, after all.
And that's exactly the point. The audience of the O & A show will decide if they care to listen, not some PC cunt who heard about it second hand and decide she would make an issue of it.
There we go again with the idea that people should be free from consequences for their actions.
Words, penis lover, words. People are getting outraged over WORDS. Its weak and pathetic. Change the station and get on with your pathetic life.
Because I'm the audience. That's my job.
First, do you listen to O & A? If you don't, then you're not the audience. Second, have you ever watched Patrice do stand up? If you haven't, then you were never "the audience."
So your opinion doesn't matter. People, by the millions, listen to O & A, they are the audience and they seem to love listening to O & A. Equally so, Patrice sells out clubs and theaters, those people are the audience.
You are just someone who heard what he said and got offended, so fine, sorry your feelings go hurt but heres what you do, don't watch Patrice or listen to O & A. Problem solved.
But I like them, I also like Patrice. Who are you to tell me different?
You're probably into gay porn, which I personally don't care for. But I would never think of telling you you can't lube up and watch two men go at it. That's your choice. My choice is not to watch it. Everyone is happy.
And the fact that you don't understand that shows that you really don't understand what the job of a performer is. You have to take the audience into account. It's one of the big differences between recorded and live performances.
I do what I think is funny and genuine. If its funny, then the audience will be there to listen, if it is not funny, then no one will be there. That's how we/comics know what works. That's why we're at clubs every night.
Patrice and O & A have reached a massive level of success doing what they do, so apparently many people enjoy them. Who are you to tell them they can't enjoy it?
The most successful and funny comics have always been the ones that cross your PC lines.
And that you don't think they do shows you're not a comic.
You're a narcissist.
You should get to know a few stand up comics, we openly admit narcissism. We stand alone on that stage for a reason, Rrhain. We are elitist, hell even Carlin admited to being a narcissist. But it doesn't mean that what we say isn't funny. And if there is an audience of people that love to watch you perform, then no one elses opinion matters.
The right to free speech does not come with the right to an audience and it certainly doesn't come with a right to someone else's money for your soapbox. If their actions on their show cause a problem for the company, the company has every right to respond, including firing them.
Agreed. And since O & A's audience hasn't complained and tunes in by the millions, everyone else who doesn't listen to them should shut the fuck up about it.
You want the right to be a prick without facing the consequences of being one.
Get used to disappointment.
Yes, they want the right to be pricks, just like Howard Stern did. What disappointment should they expect when they have one of the highest rated shows on satellite? When Patrice has reached such a level of success in comedy, tv and as a writer?
I think the only disappointed one's here are the PC fags who won't EVER get their way because funny is funny and the market has spoken.
On the contrary: The audience has everything to do with it and will always interfere because that is the entire point behind performance:
To connect to the audience.
But again, she is NOT O & A's audience, she's just some idiot trying to make a name for herself by going after some one like O & A because they have so much recognition.
The audience of their show loves them, again, by the millions listen to them. If they are ok with it then that is the end of it. And those who don't like it can just not listen to it or watch performances by Patrice.
Its that simple, change the station and get on with your pathetic, uninteresting lives and leave comedy to the comedians. If they're not funny then they won't succeed.
But if they have had success, it's because many people find them funny. If you don't, fine, you have the right to choose not to listen. No one is forcing you to do anything. But don't tell others what they should and shouldn't find funny or listen to.
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Rrhain, posted 05-08-2010 5:30 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by Rrhain, posted 05-09-2010 11:59 PM onifre has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 184 of 269 (559310)
05-08-2010 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by Straggler
05-08-2010 1:21 PM


Is there such a thing as being "ahead of ones time" and if so can this apply to performance art such as comedy?
I never really got that expression. I think the only thing that can be said is, the language used was ahead of what society allowed in a open/public forum. Lenny Bruce wasn't arrested for not being funny, audiences LOVED him. He was arrested for the language he used. Many people say Bruce was "ahead of his time," but I don't think that makes sense. I'm sure many people said and thought what he said, just not in a public forum.
Lets take the joke the lady in the video objected to. The one Patrice did at his show, not the O & A joke. She went to see his performance, of course just to criticise it, and she (not surprisingly) found it unfunny, offensive and misogynistic. So, ok, that's how she subjectively perceived it, she's more than welcome to see it that way. But no one got arrested for it. Bruce did jokes with the same language back then but he did get arrested though.
All that has changed, it seems, is societies ability to deal with certain words, and I think that's what we "call" being ahead of ones time.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Straggler, posted 05-08-2010 1:21 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by Straggler, posted 05-08-2010 2:03 PM onifre has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 186 of 269 (559321)
05-08-2010 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by Straggler
05-08-2010 2:03 PM


Re: Ahead Of Ones time
The phrase is most often used in relation to art of the painting, making kind.
I have zero ability to judge art in the classical sense. I can tell you if something "looks cool," but that's about it. I've heard the expression used to describe art though, by artsy fartsy people.
Is it used differently as applied to the performance arts?
I can only speak for stand up. Rrhain, if I'm not mistaken, does theater. I'm not sure how it applies in that forum.
In stand up, it seems to only apply to the language and material being used, and not so much the comic being revolutionary or anything like that.
(Exeptions, maybe, being Richard Pryor and Lenny Bruce, since they changed the way stand up was/is performed. After Bruce there was a lot of cynical comics and social satirist, after Pryor you got comics getting personal and dirty with their material.)
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Straggler, posted 05-08-2010 2:03 PM Straggler has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 192 of 269 (559598)
05-10-2010 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by Rrhain
05-09-2010 11:59 PM


Can you actually respond without taking it so personally?
Well when you stop being condescending in your replies then I'll adjust the way I respond.
In any case, I'll just repond here to your points and ignore the other rethoric, and we'll see where that goes...
Oni writes:
It wasn't his joke to defend
Rrhain writes:
Then what was he doing on a television show defending it?
If you listen to the beginning of the video, it explains it. He was there representing comedy and comedians and jokes in general, not to defend himself or a joke he said. He was there to give his opinion on what Opie and Anthony said on their show.
Opie and Anthony
quote:
On May 15, 2007, XM suspended Opie & Anthony for 30 days, in response to a broadcast featuring a homeless and deranged man who had wandered into the studio. Opie and Anthony dubbed the man "Homeless Charlie" and among the topics he discussed was the possibility of raping Condoleezza Rice and Laura Bush.
And if that was all he said, then you might have a point. The thing is, he kept talking, denigrating the other person. That he couldn't keep to that point means that wasn't the point he was trying to make.
His only point was that O&A were free to try and be as funny as they wanted, because he was only there to speak on behalf of comedy. When she instigated him by bringing up his performance that she once saw (even though that had nothing to do with why either of them was on the show) yes, he got defensive. Because, while she may not have found it funny (his performance that she once saw) it doesn't mean it's not funny.
He even did the joke in the video and the camera men started laughing, which is when he told them (mockingly) "Don't laugh, it's not funny and she's offended."
His joke was: "The Angry Pirate: Its when you cum in a woman's eye and you kick her in the shin, and she hops around holding one eye yelling, Argh..." --- Which is fucking hilarious! And ALWAYS gets a huge laugh from a mixed-sex crowd.
Now, is he incouraging people to go out and do it? No! Anyone taking that from the bit doesn't need to be in a comedy club. It's just a joke, people seem to like it, so he continues to perform it.
That was his joke that she didn't like, BUT, it was not what he was on the show to discuss.
At which point the response is, "Oops. I'm sorry," not, "You stupid bitch. Can't you take a joke?"
He wasn't there to apologize, he was there to discuss the O&A issue. And he never spoke to her like that. Now you're just making shit up.
He is an aggressive person who speaks in the manner that he does. But he was invited to be there with full knowledge of how he acts. It would be like bringing Andrew Dice Clay and asking him to be polite. Fuck you, he's not polite. Don't have him on the show if you don't want him to speak freely then. You get what you ask for.
Let's not play dumb. The problem of misogyny. The problem of sexism. The problem of the denigration of women. Again, I'm hardly saying that certain subjects can never be funny, but you have to explain why it is funny and not disparaging.
No, HE doesn't have to explain why other people find it funny, that's up to other people to explain. A comic does the joke, if it fails then he/she doesn't do it anymore. If it doesn't fail and people enjoy it (for whatever reason that they enjoy it) then he continues to do it. Period.
Because actions have consequences. You get enough people saying something and you wind up with people introducing legislation to revoke the citizenship of natural-born Americans for the mere suspicion of being "terrorists." Yeah, you changed the station, but you aren't the end-all/be-all of society.
First, if you paid attention and knew what they were discussing, you'd know that this was about O&A and their bit, not Patrice's act. Which, btw, O&A were fired from XM for.
And later brought back...for millions of dollars...and they're still on the air. Cause people like them.
Huh? You mean the way women are treated in this world is not connected to our sense of humor surrounding women? That trivializing rape is of no concern?
See, you have to start analyzing the joke. You have to start explaining how it wasn't that in order for your argument to have any merit. And if you're not going to do so, if you're going to run away with whines of, "But it isn't my joke to defend!" then you don't have anything to say at all. You're just trying to legitimize the position that you should be free from the consequences of your actions.
If you don't want people to respond, then you shouldn't open your yap.
Patrice, nor I, are trying to defend O&A's joke. If the audience didn't like it they can demand whatever they want. Have them fired, which DID happen. The AUDIENCE spoke, not some random, self-appointed judge of comedy.
What I AM defending is their right to tell the joke. People take jokes too serious, like with Imus. So he said something racist, who hasn't? Its when people make a big deal about it and pretend they've never done it (like with all the anti-gay people who end up being gay) that it becomes a bullshit witch hunt.
If its funny then its funny. Racism is hilarious. Bigotry is hilarious. If it wasn't then All in the Family and The Jeffersons would not have been able to broadcast.
Oh, but I forget: The audience doesn't mean shit. I get it, I get it...you don't like her. But surely someone who understands comedy like you do can understand why she has an audience. One doesn't have to like something in order to understand it.
Absolutely, I get it. Like I said, Carrot Top has a huge following. He sells out his weekly Vegas shows, 5000+ every week. But I don't think he's funny. Same with Larry the Cable Guy, HUGE following, but I don't find him funny.
But yes, the all currently have a better gig than me.
You still haven't defended the joke. And since I started my piece by making note of Patrice's point that everything has the potential to be funny, the only thing left to do is to explain how this particular piece was actually funny rather than degrading. That nobody seems to be able to do so is a pretty strong indicator that it wasn't a work of comedy but was an act of cruelty.
He wasn't there to defend O&A's joke. He was there to make the point that everything has the potential to be funny. Which is when the interviewer ask him "Even rape?" and Patrice said, "Yes, even rape can be funny." And just to defend his position, I agree. I've heard some funny rape jokes, the funniest being told by Sarah Silverman.
"When I was young I was raped by my family doctor. Which, for a jewish girl... is rather bitter-sweet."
You know for a fact that she didn't hear it herself? She certainly didn't say so in the interview. After all, she quoted Patrice's routine back to him and he denied that was his joke.
She didn't hear the O&A bit for herself, she got it second hand as did most everyone else who doesn't listen to their show.
The Patrice joke, yes, she did hear that one, but that's not the one I'm talking about.
But it won't be funny if it's only genuine to you. Otherwise, you become not a comedian but a performance artist where the point certainly makes sense to you but is incomprehensible to others. If you cannot connect to the audience, then all you're doing is vocalizing your internal monologue.
Sure, I agree, in the end the audience will decide.
Or do you think that when a comedian "gets in trouble," there shouldn't be any consequences?
No I don't. I don't think a joke should be taken so serious. People are overly sensitive these days and feel the need to be PC about everything.
The consequences come, not because the joke wasn't funny, but because advertisers don't want to lose money. Its not about whats right, its about money. And to me, that makes the punishment meaningless if your only reason for punishing is because it hurt your pocket.
There is no sencerity at that point, just a bunch of corporate douchebags who don't want to lose their summer homes.
That's why Patrice said, and I agree 100%, there is no passion in their argument, its all a bunch of corporate dicks trying to save their wallets.
A comic, on the other hand, is performing out of pure passion. He may fuck up and tell a joke that was too far into a senstive topic. Ok. His/her bad. But to hurt this person with fines, or fire them and try to ruin their career over it, just because some corporate sponser asked you too, is pathetic. I know it happens, but its still pathetic when it does. Because it solves NOTHING.
There is a difference between accepting the fact that you can't please everybody and going out there anyway and understanding that their opinion does, indeed, matter. You have to figure out why they have the opinion that they have. That doesn't necessarily mean you change anything in your performance. But their reaction informs your performance and allows you to understand what you're doing that much better.
I have not argued different. I have said repeatedly, the audience will tell you whats funny and what isn't funny. It is then up to the comic to change it. But many don't change anything, and continue the way they want to go. Some even achieve success like this, Andy Kaufman comes to mind.
There is no set way on how to do it. If it seems funny to me, and genuine to my character, I'll do it. If it's not funny then I'll either tweek it or abandon it...just as most other comics do. O&A never did that bit again. End of story. It didn't work and they shit canned it.
Ok, I think that addresses everything that wasn't personal... your move.
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Rrhain, posted 05-09-2010 11:59 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by Rrhain, posted 05-21-2010 4:02 AM onifre has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 194 of 269 (559611)
05-10-2010 5:42 PM


Patrice laughs hysterically at ni**er joke
Just in case anyone is feeling like Patrice himself can't take a racist joke. Here is a clip, from the O&A show, in which a white comic (Louis CK) makes a completely racist joke and Patrice laughs at it. He does not get offended, he does not demand an apology...why? Because he knows it was just a joke and not meant in any kind of harsh manner.
First, I find this bit hilarious...anyone else?
See, comics know comedy. They know how to laugh at themselves and they don't take shit so serious.
Now, why didn't this OBVIOUSLY racist remark gather any kind of backlash? Simple. Because a black guy was there and approved of the joke. Had it been some PC cop, they would have made a big stink about it.
- Oni

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by Rrhain, posted 05-21-2010 4:11 AM onifre has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 199 of 269 (560333)
05-14-2010 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by Rrhain
05-14-2010 7:50 AM


Since you're gonna keep acting like a fag (and I don't mean that in the sexual sense, I just mean you're being a fag) I'll respond in my usual 'Rrhain wants to act like a fag' fashion...
No, I concluded that from his offense that somebody took his comments seriously and that his first reaction was not to engage but rather to get defensive. I concluded that because despite the fact that I have said from the very beginning that O&A have every right to say whatever they wish, they just need to accept the fact that everybody else gets to respond, including their employers, he seems to be incapable of getting beyond the fact that there was pushback.
Playing arm-chair psychologist and then accuse me of doing it first? You're so full of shit, dude, you're eyes must be completely brown.
I don't care that there was push back. This all started because YOU said Patrice was there to defend a joke, when he was not there for that reason because THE JOKE WASN'T HIS TO DEFEND.
He gave his opinion, the joke was not offensive. She gave her opinion, the joke was offensive. My point is, why listen to ONLY her? That's what Patrice is saying. Who is she to determine what's funny or not funny for other people? If SHE doesn't find it funny then it's not funny TO HER. I personally thought the bit was hilarious. Why does her opinion out weight mine?
Oh, but that would require actually analyzing the joke, something onifre has directly stated that he will not do.
Analyzing the joke? Why? I found it funny, she didn't. Ok. Who gives a fuck? There, I've analyzed it.
I mean honestly, where do you get off thinking you can analyze the potential humor of a joke? Something completely subjective. Next, lets analyze the emotional meaning of poems or colors... christ you're a douche.
He doesn't want there to be any consequences.
Holy shit, what's it like to live in your world of delusion, dude? Are all theater people this fucking annoying?
I clearly state, and you fucking quote it too which is the funny part:
quote:
But when the market speaks, as in the case with Howard Stern and Opie & Anthony, and people say they like the show and listen, then who are you or anyone else to think your opinion or taste in humor matters?
All I'm saying is - and maybe in this case you can use your superhuman ability to comprehend - the people listening to the O&A show will speak up on the matter. If they didn't like the show and refused to listen to O&A, then there will be proper action taken. And that is fine with me.
BUT, if the people listening to the O&A show weren't offended and found the show funny, or the bit funny, this woman's personal opinion should not affect anything. Sure, I'll listen to her, and she'll listen to me. But in the end, neither of our opinons should affect anything. The listeners of the O&A show will make the final verdict.
Do you agree or not? If not why not?
And her point was that this misogyny has real effects upon real women.
So what... Are you saying people can't make misogynistic jokes? Or racist jokes?
Huh? Are you saying that consensual sex is equivalent to rape?
Christ you're a fucking douche...
For example, in my response to onifre's continued fascination with my sex life
Sorry dude, I have enough trouble keeping up with mine. I made two comments about the fact that you mentioned dick twice. You're stupid little jokes about people having a fascination with your sex life, if I recall, was something you and CS would banter on about. Not you and I.
Honestly, I personally thought you were gay. Not joking. You're a theater guy, you make a lot of gay jokes when you talk to CS so, I just kinda figured. But I wasn't insulting your sexuality (or what I thought was your sexuality), seriously.
And believe me, if I was gay I'd be proud as fuck about it. I'd be the best ass fucker out there. I'd brag about all the ass I pounded over the weekend, etc. I have no issue with sexuality. But I'm not, which is a shame cos I'd really make a lot of men happy.
That raping and beating a woman will be considered "funny" rather than despicable, leading to women being actually raped and beaten and having their attackers treated as something less than the monsters they are. .
- What?!
Rape being funny in one particular joke will lead to rape? This is probably the dumbest thing I've ever read from you.
No further comment....
Take the famous scene for Cyrano de Bergerac.
Be honest, you're gay, right? Not that there's anything wrong with that!
It's the context and presentation that let us know if it is meant as humor or something else.
Finally you say something that can be discussed.
So you feel that O&A really would like homeless people to rape Rice?
Do you think they didn't mean that as a joke?
There are plenty of phrases I could have used, but I decided to use the one that included a penis because I knew that onifre would be unable to resist the urge to express his own homophobia.
Once again you act like an arm-chair psych? Dude, relax, some of my best friends have sex with gay people.
In fact, I specifically ignored all that rethoric in your post cos it was getting stupid. Both you and I are not homophobic; its clear that we are both in a business where we almost couldn't be. So lets drop it. I know you mean it as a joke, but it's a stupid joke that doesn't make sense to continue.
Remember, I'm not the one that brought up sex. I never am.
Lets see if that's true. Lets go back to when this started:
Message 180
Oni writes:
This had to do with that lady thinking she knows what's right and wrong to say on the air because she feels she can speak for the public.
Rrhain writes:
And the response to that is to show the specifics of why she got it wrong, not to throw a hissy fit and claim that she has no sense of humor. Look, I'm very sorry about his penis but until he can show why the joke isn't part of the problem, he's only showing that he's just as much of a sexist prick.
No one mentioned anything about a penis till you brought it up. In other words, you feel Patrice has a small dick or some kind of dick issue, which is the reason for his issue with this lady, right? Sorry, I'm just asking because I'm not the one here with the superhuman ability to comprehend.
Same post had the "Wave your dick at me" comment, but we'll let that one slide.
But as you can see, you instigated it. I responded once with some fun gay comments but then I droppped it. You picked it up and ran with it and tried to make me sound homophobic and claim that I wanted to fuck you. I don't know why that seemed like the logical conclusion from my gay jokes, but OK.....
If you think it was funny then cool. But I dropped it in the next post, I even said I would drop it, you now continue with it. Any reason for that?
I don't think onifre can take it in the slightest. That's why he always returns to it as his primary attack against me. Whenver he paints himself into a corner, he tries to rescue himself by accusing me of being gay.
Excuse me asshole, but I NEVER bullshit with you like that. This is the crap you and CS get on about and I challenge you to show me when the fuck in past posts I ever attacked you like that. Other than in ONE post on this thread as a joke. Even though I thought (and still do think) that you're homosexual. But that's just my opinion that I came to from reading your posts. But I don't mean that in an insulting manner. So please don't take it that way. We all make assumtions about one another on this forum, lets not pretend we don't.
When I use the word 'fag' I don't say it to mean homosexual. Don't act stupid! You know there are two meanings, one playful, one derogatory. People use the phrase, "that's gay" all the time. They don't mean, that's something homosexual's like, don't be a fuckhead about it. Christ your a fucking douche.
He's nothing but a coward.
Why do you pretend to be a tough guy on an internet forum? But I tell you what, I'll let you know when I'm in LA again and you can tell me that to my face, Peter Pan.
He wants to be able to spout his homophobia without any consequences to his actions.
I love penis! Is that better?
Btw, someone very, very close to me is gay and I love her just the same. If you're joking then cool, but you can stop if you're being serious cos its getting stupid.
His attempts to use being gay as an insult
Dude, I honestly thought you were gay. Sorry. I didn't mean it as an insult. I may have been mocking you about it but fuck that, I mock all my gay friends about them being gay. Why not, they aren't above being mocked. They fuck with me about liking vaginas. No one is offended cos no one gives a shit or takes the other too serious. You take shit too personal and think you have everyone figured out. But that's cos you're a fag about everything (not in the homosexual context), I just mean like, a fag.
All onifre needs to do is stop making comments about my sex life and we'll see how long I can go before I make a comment about his.
First, as you can see above, you brought penis' up first. I commented once and dropped it in my next post to you, but here you are again bringing it up. Its the same thing you do with CS. He'll make a gay reference and you automatically make it seem like he wants to fuck you. I know you're just attempting to be funny, but you're so not funny that it comes off as stupid, homophobic rethoric on your part.
Mod even caught that you were doing it too and you respond by claiming HE is homophobic.
Is your entire argument, I know you are but what am I?
Christ you're a fucking douche....
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Rrhain, posted 05-14-2010 7:50 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by Rrhain, posted 05-28-2010 3:50 PM onifre has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 205 of 269 (561581)
05-21-2010 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by dronestar
05-21-2010 12:16 PM


Re: Just asking . . .
For those on the forum that doesn't know the "Donkey Punch" joke, can you or Oni supply it in writing
Gladly, but first I'll set up what he (Patrice) is attempting to make a joke about.
In his act he mocks the silly names we give certain sexual acts, then he goes on a tirad of all the one's he's heard. I explained "The angry pirate," I'll do a few others.
1) Donkey Punch: It's when you're doing it doggy style and before you orgasm, you punch him/her in the back of the head and they clinch up making for a great orgasim due to the tightness.
2) Gorilla Mask: You cum in the person's face and then throw pubs on their face.
3) The Poltergeist: Have sex doggy style, then you have a friend take your place and you go outside and wave at the person you were having sex with.
He goes through a bunch of 'em, but these are some.
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by dronestar, posted 05-21-2010 12:16 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by dronestar, posted 05-21-2010 1:36 PM onifre has not replied
 Message 208 by cavediver, posted 05-21-2010 6:33 PM onifre has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 207 of 269 (561586)
05-21-2010 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by Rrhain
05-21-2010 4:02 AM


Oni writes:
He was there representing comedy and comedians and jokes in general, not to defend himself or a joke he said.
Rrhain writes:
Then what on earth was he doing there?
He was there representing comedy and comedians and jokes in general, not to defend himself or a joke he said.
The issue, however, is whether or not this particular instance was an example of comedy or cruelty.
I'll use your example:
Rrhain writes:
F'rinstance, much has been made of the possible "wife beating" aspect of The Honeymooners. Ralph is always threatening to beat Alice. But what makes it OK, what makes it an act of comedy and not cruelty is that we know that he's never gonna do it.
And we know that Homeless Charlie is never going to rape, Rice. So that makes it an act of comedy.
Can you explain why it's funny? You're a comedian. Surely you have something of value to say as to what comedy is and how something that in one context can be cruel while in another context is funny.
Sure. The joke she's refering to is The Angry Pirate. To me, it's funny because when you hear "angry pirate" you have no idea which direction he's going in. When he then explains that it's when you cum in someone's eye and kick them in the shin, and the hop around holding one eye and yelling, Arggg, the mental picture of that makes me laugh.
Oni writes:
Now, is he incouraging people to go out and do it? No!
Rrhain writes:
Oh, really? That is, after all, the point of the discussion.
No. Here's where you continue to get confused. The point of the discussion was whether or not O&A's joke was meant as a joke or was it just plain cruelty. Patrice was not there to defend his own material. She brought up his material and he address it, but it most certainly was not the original point of that discussion.
So yes, the phrase, "You stupid bitch, can't you take a joke?" did not pass his lips.
Let us not play dumb and pretend that that wasn't precisely what he was saying.
That's what YOU think he was saying. I think he was saying exactly what he said, and he never called her a stupid bitch.
And part of that "aggressiveness" is to be a sexist prick. You've admitted it yourself. And now you're complaining that an admitted sexist prick was caught being a sexist prick?
Not at all. But he wasn't a sexist prick to her because he didn't use any of that language. You claim it's "what he really meant to say" but that's just your opinion and I don't share it.
At no point did Patrice actually explain why what was said was comedic rather than cruel.
Sure he did. He said people find it funny, thus it's comedic. It's also comedic because he meant it as a joke, because he told it as a joke, during his comedy performance on a stage in front of people who came to a comedy show, not at a random location. That settles it for me.
But I forget. "That's not his job." Then what good is he?
You're mixing up the O&A joke with his joke and you're now confusing me as to which one you want him to discuss.
For the O&A joke he said he thought they were trying to be funny, he asked her what she thought but she said she didn't care if it was funny or nor (2:20min)...so that ended that conversation about that.
She then moved on to his joke and said it wasn't funny. He said it was funny because audiences full of people find it funny. What else was there to discuss that you felt he didn't answer?
He was brought on to defend O&A's bit,
No he wasn't.
They were suspended for 30 days not for the joke
You're right, they were just suspended. Question though, who got O&A back on the air?
The question, however, is whether or not what happened was even an act of comedy in the first place. Ah, but you don't want to talk about that, so what good are you?
I have, over and over. I think it was an act of comedy. They did a bit, they meant to make a joke, it failed. End of story, right?
F'rinstance, much has been made of the possible "wife beating" aspect of The Honeymooners. Ralph is always threatening to beat Alice. But what makes it OK, what makes it an act of comedy and not cruelty is that we know that he's never gonna do it.
And we know that Homeless Charlie is never going to rape, Rice. So that makes it an act of comedy.
Thanks for proving me right.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by Rrhain, posted 05-21-2010 4:02 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by Straggler, posted 05-21-2010 7:32 PM onifre has replied
 Message 219 by Rrhain, posted 06-05-2010 6:31 AM onifre has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 211 of 269 (561619)
05-21-2010 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by cavediver
05-21-2010 6:33 PM


To you and Straggler
1) Not funny (IMO)
2) Vaguely funny (IMO)
3) Still can't stop laughing, and I read it five minutes ago
I agree with both you and Straggler that the poltergeist is ridiculously hilarious...and that's why I gave all 3 of those, because I wanted to see what the reactions were.
Curiously both the angry pirate (which I find hilarious) and the poltergeist (which is my favorite one) are the ones Patrice himself wrote.
The gorilla mask and donkey punch he does to fill space, but they are commonly used by lots of people and just saying donkey punch gets a laugh because most everyone in the US knows what it means. It's like a Dirty Sanchez; people just know what that means.
Forward the video to 3:18min and he gets into all of the sex move names. He starts by just mentioning 'Donkey Punch' and you can see the reaction from the crowd before he even explains what it means. And I'm curious if you or Straggler have a different opinion after he physically performs the joke.
By the way, this was in Canada at the Montreal Festival's Nasty Show. Which just further proves that anyone walking into a nasty show better be ready for NASTY.
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by cavediver, posted 05-21-2010 6:33 PM cavediver has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by Straggler, posted 05-23-2010 6:04 PM onifre has not replied

  
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