dinosaur and human co-existence

Buz, you claim dinosaurs and humans co-existed. Since before the flood, the bones would nearly all have had either been in shallow graves or rotted on the surface. Given the uniformity non catastrophic period from creation of animals to the time of the flood, non of the bones of either man nor kino would have been preserved by fossilization. Likey, as I've alluded, relatively (I say relative) few of all existing pre-flood dinos would have died during that 1500-1800 time frame from alleged day six of creation.At the time of the flood and previous, likely few, if any dinos and humans mingled close enough to have been catastropically buried in the earth to fossilize together.As the flood began to rise, mankind, being the creature of high intelligence would, unlike the dinos, had the intelligence to seek the best last bastions of survival which would have been, in most cases, substantially separate from the dinos, having the ability to climb to greater heights, float on debris for a spell, etc.There are claims by Carl Baugh and others of human superimposed footprints over that of dinos. I'm not convinced that all of the have been imperically refuted, nor am I able, without more knowledge to adamantly argue for them.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Huntard, that, have you learned anything here demeaning and blind asserted tune you're singing is all too often the evolutionist response to viable arguments of creationists. It's time you drop the hum drum old personal attack tune and stick to the debate tune of effective responses such as what we are required to sing.Huntard, perhaps you should reread carefully what you responded to and get back to me on that. You're response makes no sense relative to my statement and needs some clarification.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

The curse is part of the premise which is in the Genesis record. That record states that at some point the long legged reptile type would cease to exist and the descendents of it would be belly crawling (implicating short legged) types of reptiles.The evidence cited by me depicts two examples of extinct long legged type reptiles, i.e. the prototypes and the respective belly crawling reptile types that did not become extinct; that survived and thrived abundantly and which are observable today. The Buzsaw premise and thesis is based on the fact that indeed evidence of this has been observed as the premise predicted.The above lends evidentual support to the prediction in the Genesis record and renders a reasonable explanation for the disappearance of the dinosaur type reptiles.I see Coyote has opted out of this thread and you appear to have a problem with my claims of evidence. Perhaps it could be moved to the Freeforall, continued as a new topic in Freeforall or simply closed.This is just another example of why it becomes so difficult for bonafide Biblical creationists to debate anything in the science fora here at EvC. I don't know what the solution is. I have tried to keep it as scientific as possible, but as you know, anything implying ID directly or indirectly implies an intelligent creator/manager.I don't think it's to the benefit of anyone if debates like this become so technically difficult that Biblical premises become intolerable.If the data which I've cited, (all I have at this time) is considered moot as evidence by you and perhaps others on your staff, just say the word and I'll be done with this topic.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

World evidence? I assumed that the fossils were the world evidence of my premise which is the Genesis declaration of the cause and effect of the curse, the cause being that a long legged reptile was empowered to deceive mankind, cursing the reptile types. I use the term, reptile here since serpent was the only word for reptile types in the ancient language applied.This, as with so many evolution/creation debates gets into the realm of whether Satan, Jehovah, angels and other aspects of invisible intelligence exist and operate in and out of the human realm. This is why world evidence in such debates as this involves that old debate as to whether there is indeed a higher form of intelligence operative on planet earth and the cosmos than that of humans.This is why it becomes difficult to debate anything in the science fora relative to EvC (evolution vs creationism) and keep it secular. Again, I don't know what the solution to that is.I've tried to answer your question here. I'm not understanding why the evidence cited is not world evidence, so hopefully you will elaborate a bit on what you're calling for here.(ABE: Since the topic is whether dinos and humans co-existed, likely the Genesis record would be the most likely source for a premise to the co-existance of the these. It also, of course, implicates the question of dating methodology and that implicates whether the flood happened, though those are different topics. For that reason, I suggest that perhaps the topic should be in a forum which accomodates discussion of this type. ) Edited by Buzsaw, : As noted in context and message title update.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

1) The context clearly implicates curses on all descendents of the three which were cursed in what is known as the fall or the original sin. First, the serpent/reptile was cursed to become a belly crawler. We observe that the surviving reptiles are relative belly crawlers having either short legs or no legs. 2ndly, the woman was cursed to have painful births (abe: and to be subserviant to her husband. Thus, the observed phenomena in nearly all cultures of all ages of the leadership role of the man. My purpose in citing this is not to go off topic but to show that, as with the reptile, the application of the curse was not singular) We observe that this applies to all womem. 3rdly, the man was cursed to making his living by the sweat of his brow. As an aside the ground was cursed to bring forth thorns and briers, etc. So again, the clear implication that the curse was not exclusive singularly.2) Snakes are reptiles which have no legs whatsoever. Thus it can be concluded that before the curse, snake prototypes had legs, according to the Genesis record which is my premise. We know that no snakes have legs, thus the curse did not apply singularly. Edited by Buzsaw, : Add statement by edit

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Now you're getting picky-uny. Relative to most animals, they are close to the ground and likely more time than most passes on the belly. Now, you're treading water and consuming my valuable time. I've covered this repeatedly, that other aspects of physiology would become necessary adaptations for a different environ. How about your source for this? Show and tell time.As for the rest of your message, my evidence cited does account for different strokes for different folks among the dino prototypes and their respective types, i.e. the gator and snake etc.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Thanks, Bluejay for explaining this. However the problem for the evolutionist explanation remains, why was the catastrophy exclusive to the dinosaurs while the co-existing belly crawling and short legged reptiles survived and thrived?The Genesis explanation for that remains the only sensible explanation for that so far as I'm aware.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

The real world evidence is the same evidence that evolutionists use. It is the observable fact that the dinos became extinct. The difference is that little is said by evolutionists as to why the whatever catastropy which allegedly wiped out the dinos left the short legged and belly crawling ones surviving and thriving. In this whole thread, none of my counterparts have come up with anything significant in response to my repeated appeals for a viable explanation. Therefore, I am claiming that this is real world evidence (not claiming proof, but supportive evidence) of the curse as depicted in the Genesis record which is the premise for my thesis.Creationists usually use the same real world evidence as evolutionists. It's all in how that evidence is interpreted. That's what the EvC debates are about, as I understand it; so that different PoVs can be aired and may the truth prevail in the end, that all may benefit, including the guests.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Hi Asgara. Can we agree then, that by and large the dino typs became extinct and by and large the shorties and belly types survived and thrived?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This doesn't sound like catastrophy (Astroid?) to me, Doc. I'm referring to the alleged zapper that essentially zapped the dinos and left the others essentially alive and well.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

I've explained that. The real world evidenced fact remains that by and large, the dinos were not around 4300 or so years ago and the shorties and belly crawlers were alive and well.As I have explained repeatedly, the parent cursed dinos would not have been zapped, but their egg genes were altered so that the hatched offspring became the shorty type reptiles. All remaining parents were gone with the flood is the implication. Have you been reading and clicking on my cited evidence? I've covered this which explains your problem. It was Satan who allegedly deceived the woman via the reptile. There was only 8 people allegedly surviving the flood. The only record would be in the fossils etc. I've explained that humans were able to survive the longer than the dinos, being intelligent so likely the dinos and humans would likely not be found together after the alleged flood. You're right. If there was a flood and a different earrth surface topography and atmosphere the pre-flood element makeup would have been such that radiometric dating would be skewed, Imo.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

I didn't say rate of decay. I said element makeup. Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Guess.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Repeat after me; by and large. Bird from dino, though popular, is debatable. I mean the literal stuff that you metamephorize or wave off as fable; you know, what it actually says or clearly implies. No. The evidence which better satisfies the co-existing dino/shortie problem you have yet to explain, as to just the dinos (I say dinosaurs themselves-not their descendents) at large, became extinct exclusively and relatively suddenly.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

1) Your summary of my position is correct. Thanks for getting it right.2) There would have been dino eggs laid or young born near but before the time of the curse. These young would have co-existed with the non-dino reptiles for a period of time while they were maturing. Peryaps, also, the freshly laid eggs of that group took longer to hatch than the others, having the larger embryo.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Please supply your source that I lied in that by and large the dinos became extinct exclusively as a group. It's all over he net, Jonesy, that the dinos are extinct and that the other reptiles by and large did not. That has been my position if you've been reading and I assume you have.This is nothing but one of our often personal attacks, calling me a liar. I resent it and would appreciate if you would cease and desist.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.