Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 63 (9161 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,585 Year: 2,842/9,624 Month: 687/1,588 Week: 93/229 Day: 4/61 Hour: 0/4


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Open letter to conservatives
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 101 of 122 (566582)
06-25-2010 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Taq
06-25-2010 11:44 AM


Re: Know what a NeoCon is?
That's false. For example, the VA system (a government run hospital) provides the same care at 20% less cost.
The VA is terrible! I'm a veteran, and the VA is a last resort.
Hospitals are very ineffecient, and right now there is no incentive to become more effecient. Also, having the best tech doesn't mean anything if it has to be rationed according to wealth.
Hospitals do have incentives to being better than a neighboring hospital because it brings in revenue. Where there is no incentive, is under the nationalized health care system. The only incentive is getting rid of you.
Then why is it so expensive? Private companies are competing for government contracts and the costs are through the roof.
The government has to pay prevailing wages when they contract out.
1 million americans are forced into bankruptcy each year due to medical bills. People actually have to choose between life and bankrupting their family. The problem here is the health care system, not nationalization or government programs.
Yes, you are right. There does need to be some kind of public option available, because there are some circumstances beyond our control. The issue is that under Obamacare, the Public Option plan will cover approximately 2% of the population. And of that, they cap the amount of care a family is entitled to.
The greatest issue, seems to me, is the feasibility factor. It's all good and well to say how something theoretically works, and it's another thing to demonstrate how it would work. Given the size and population of the United States, how would it work?
Just let them die in the streets?
Nobody dies in the streets. It's against the law not to treat someone in an emergency. This already happens now, and the government pays for it.
We are a moral people, are we not? Conservatives claim that we are a christian nation, so shouldn't we be helping the least fortunate in our society as Jesus commanded? Or should we turn our backs on the very people who built this nation in the last century?
I don't care what conservatives or liberals say. I don't take cues from them, and I'm not religious. Turn our back on who, though?
I guess I'm not seeing what you are seeing. You are pointing to a moral imperative. What moral imperative do you speak of?

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from mistaken conviction." — Blaise Pascal

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Taq, posted 06-25-2010 11:44 AM Taq has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 103 of 122 (566585)
06-25-2010 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Taq
06-25-2010 11:49 AM


Re: Know what a NeoCon is?
Health care is useless? We have to pay for it one way or another, through insurance companies, out of pocket, or through taxes. Insurance companies are driven by profit, not patient health. Insurance companies ration care based on their bottom line, not what is best for the patient. If you want to talk about a pit of usefulness just look no further than the multi-million dollar salaries that insurance company CEO's make.
The entire world is incentive driven, including the government. Insurance companies and the government have vested interests in making you well, so that you'll stop bleeding them dry. Why the government would be any different from an insurance company is beyond me. The outcome is the same. Someone else is paying for you to get better. Both have an interest in your health.
Now, you say insurance companies ration care. They can only ration what they are contractually obligated to ration. They can't just say, "We won't cover you for having cancer," it has been established that you were never covered for cancer, otherwise they face a losing lawsuit.
And really, to me, corporatism is simply an extension of the government-mentality -- I'm so powerful, I do what I want.

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from mistaken conviction." — Blaise Pascal

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Taq, posted 06-25-2010 11:49 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Taq, posted 06-25-2010 2:29 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 105 of 122 (566589)
06-25-2010 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by dronestar
06-25-2010 12:23 PM


Re: Know what a NeoCon is?
No, I did not write that the US military spends "MORE". Rather, I wrote that the US spends "ABOUT AS MUCH".
It's not even close. That's a very large exaggeration to assert that it spends about as much as the whole word combined. Source
To you, health care is useless? Really?
Please don't misinterpret what I said. These government programs are useless. You say the system is broken, yet I provide evidence that the US government spends more on health care than anything else, by leaps and bounds. What has it produced, if not this broken system?
Hyro, what is your take on the following Eisenhower quote?
quote:
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children.
It's a good quote. Did you miss where I specifically stated, in no uncertain terms, where I wanted military expenditures to be reigned in?
The military industrial complex (like most government programs) is a bloated system that overburdens the common taxpayer who is just trying to survive.

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from mistaken conviction." — Blaise Pascal

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by dronestar, posted 06-25-2010 12:23 PM dronestar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-25-2010 3:11 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024