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Author Topic:   Open letter to conservatives
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 106 of 122 (566595)
06-25-2010 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by dronestar
06-25-2010 1:16 PM


Re: Know what a NeoCon is?
Apparently I can ritually sacrifice goats to the "demons" of footballing fortune in the hope of a convincing England win in the world cup, molest donkeys to appease the supernatural "devils" who control the weather in London and pray to the "angels" who can relieve my son of his chicken pox - And yet still unreservedly and legitimately call myself an atheist.
Ho hum.
Although I may worship Eisenhower's rants, I don't necessarily consider him a god.
Off-topic rant aside I think that was a great quote from Eisenhower and top marks to GM for her staunch defence against the recent right-wing US assault on the UK NHS.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by dronestar, posted 06-25-2010 1:16 PM dronestar has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9944
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 107 of 122 (566602)
06-25-2010 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Hyroglyphx
06-25-2010 1:28 PM


Re: Know what a NeoCon is?
The entire world is incentive driven, including the government. Insurance companies and the government have vested interests in making you well, so that you'll stop bleeding them dry.
False. Insurance companies are financially rewarded for denying health care to as many of their customers as possible. In fact, some former members of the board responsible for decisions on denying coverage have admitted to receiving bonuses based on the number of denials they produce.
Why the government would be any different from an insurance company is beyond me.
Because the government is not driven by profit and is accountable to elected officials, neither of which is in place in insurance companies. Insurance companies are driven by profit and are accountable to stock holders who expect a profit.
Now, you say insurance companies ration care. They can only ration what they are contractually obligated to ration. They can't just say, "We won't cover you for having cancer," it has been established that you were never covered for cancer, otherwise they face a losing lawsuit.
Or if you already have cancer they can deny you coverage. They write the contracts so that they can opt out if you contract an expensive illness. They cap the lifetime amount they can have to pay out. They limit the number of procedures you can get. They limit you to a list of specific doctors. They limit which medications you can get. They ration, ration, ration, all in the name of profit. If you are against health care rationing then how can you defend the current private health insurance system?
And really, to me, corporatism is simply an extension of the government-mentality -- I'm so powerful, I do what I want.
The difference in my eyes is that at least with elected officials the people have a lot more say. It's not perfect, don't get me wrong, but at least there is some connection between the people and the government where there is no such connection between the populace and the corporation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-25-2010 1:28 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 108 of 122 (566627)
06-25-2010 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Hyroglyphx
06-25-2010 1:47 PM


defense spending
No, I did not write that the US military spends "MORE". Rather, I wrote that the US spends "ABOUT AS MUCH".

It's not even close. That's a very large exaggeration to assert that it spends about as much as the whole word combined. Source
From your source:
US: $663,255,000,000
Everybody else: $904,013,600,000
The US spends 73% as much as the rest of the world combined.
Or, the US spends 42% of the total spending.
I'll let you guys argue whether that is "about as much" or not...
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Straggler, posted 06-25-2010 3:20 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 109 of 122 (566631)
06-25-2010 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by New Cat's Eye
06-25-2010 3:11 PM


Re: defense spending
The US spends 73% as much as the rest of the world combined.
That is incredible. Think about that. 73% of what the entire world spends on defence is spent by the US.
Or, the US spends 42% of the total spending.
Total spending on what?
These two figures seem contradictory but I am not sure what the second one is showing?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-25-2010 3:11 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-25-2010 3:28 PM Straggler has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 110 of 122 (566637)
06-25-2010 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Straggler
06-25-2010 3:20 PM


Re: defense spending
The US spends 73% as much as the rest of the world combined.

That is incredible. Think about that. 73% of what the entire world spends on defence is spent by the US.
Yeah, we must have a pretty huge dick
Or, the US spends 42% of the total spending.
Total spending on what?
These two figures seem contradictory but I am not sure what the second one is showing?
$663,255,000,000 / ( $663,255,000,000+$904,013,600,000)
Amount US spends over the total amount spent.
The first number was $663,255,000,000 / $904,013,600,000
The amount the US spends over what everybody else does.

ABE:
I just realize you were mistaken...
That is incredible. Think about that. 73% of what the entire world spends on defence is spent by the US.
Including the US in the entire world, that number should be the 42% one.
42% of what the entire world spends on defence is spent by the US.
The US spends 73% of what everybody else spends.
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Straggler, posted 06-25-2010 3:20 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by dronestar, posted 06-25-2010 3:31 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 112 by Straggler, posted 06-25-2010 3:36 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 111 of 122 (566638)
06-25-2010 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by New Cat's Eye
06-25-2010 3:28 PM


Re: defense spending
Thanks CS, your total ($904B) and mine ($895 billion for 2011) are close enough. Hyro's ($663B) doesn't include all items such as:
* DoD - $548.9 billion
* Dept. of Energy, Nuclear Security - $11.2 billion
* Homeland Security - $43.6 billion
* Veterans Affairs - $57 billion
* State and other International Programs - $58.5 billion.
* Contingency Operations Budget - $159.3 billion
Error
However, I want to point out two additional items that should easily cause US military spending to eclipse world wide military spending:
1. The true cost of Iraq war will blossom exponentially in the coming years:
The Three Trillion Dollar War
The book examines the full cost of the Iraq War, including many hidden costs.
The Three Trillion Dollar War - Wikipedia
2. Real-world tabulations, will drive costs in money and human terms exponentially higher. Remember, for every woman or child murdered by American soldiers, their family and friends WILL seek revenge. And in fighting this endless "terrorism" some researchers predict the costs will eventually bankrupt the nation. Well, duh.
zcommunications.org - zcommunications Resources and Information.
I keep asking why Americans aren't angered by all this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-25-2010 3:28 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by onifre, posted 06-25-2010 3:41 PM dronestar has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 112 of 122 (566640)
06-25-2010 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by New Cat's Eye
06-25-2010 3:28 PM


Re: defense spending
Yeah, we must have a pretty huge dick
Yes - It is being wangled in my face as we speak. Please take it elsewhere.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-25-2010 3:28 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-25-2010 3:47 PM Straggler has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2941 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 113 of 122 (566645)
06-25-2010 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by dronestar
06-25-2010 3:31 PM


Re: defense spending
I keep asking why Americans aren't angered by all this.
Are you not watching So You Think You Can Dance and America's got Talent...? It's there for a reason you know...
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by dronestar, posted 06-25-2010 3:31 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by dronestar, posted 06-25-2010 3:50 PM onifre has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 114 of 122 (566652)
06-25-2010 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Straggler
06-25-2010 3:36 PM


Re: defense spending
Yeah, we must have a pretty huge dick

Yes - It is being wangled in my face as we speak. Please take it elsewhere.
Kinda makes me wanna change my name to: Dick Wangler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Straggler, posted 06-25-2010 3:36 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Straggler, posted 06-25-2010 3:49 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 115 of 122 (566655)
06-25-2010 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by New Cat's Eye
06-25-2010 3:47 PM


Re: defense spending
Kinda makes me wanna change my name to: Dick Wangler
It suits you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-25-2010 3:47 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 116 of 122 (566656)
06-25-2010 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by onifre
06-25-2010 3:41 PM


Re: defense spending
I know, I know.
Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured ConsentManufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured ConsentManufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent, Manufactured Consent . . .
If I write it one million times, do you think I'll remember it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by onifre, posted 06-25-2010 3:41 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by onifre, posted 06-25-2010 3:57 PM dronestar has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2941 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 117 of 122 (566659)
06-25-2010 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by dronestar
06-25-2010 3:50 PM


Re: defense spending
If I write it one million times, do you think I'll remember it?
Maybe...
But it does ring true, which is actually the part that angers me the most. It's not the spending, I don't knock the Defence Industry for doing their job. I don't knock anyone for attempting to make money. What bothers me is the efforts made to distract Americans so they won't concern themselves with the spending. That, to me, is what should be cause for concern. That, to me, is what's worse.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by dronestar, posted 06-25-2010 3:50 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by dronestar, posted 06-25-2010 4:08 PM onifre has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 118 of 122 (566662)
06-25-2010 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by onifre
06-25-2010 3:57 PM


Re: defense spending
I don't knock the Defence Industry for doing their job. I don't knock anyone for attempting to make money.
Did U ever see "Lord of War" (2005)
Lord of War (2005) - IMDb
I know it is an over the top Hollywood movie, but if you ever saw the salespeople at weapons production sales conferences, it would turn your stomach to know such people DO exist. Those war-salesmen / war-production-lobbyists sicken me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by onifre, posted 06-25-2010 3:57 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by onifre, posted 06-25-2010 4:35 PM dronestar has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2941 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 119 of 122 (566667)
06-25-2010 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by dronestar
06-25-2010 4:08 PM


Re: defense spending
I know it is an over the top Hollywood movie, but if you ever saw the salespeople at weapons production sales conferences, it would turn your stomach to know such people DO exist. Those war-salesmen / war-production-lobbyists sicken me.
I've seen it, good movie.
Yeah, lobbyist in general sicken me, I agree on that point. But if that's how someone chooses to make a living, while I don't find it honorable, and in fact find it despicable, I won't knock 'em for it. If not them then someone else will do it; it doesn't seem worth it to bother with individuals when it's the entire system that's at fault.
However, I do knock those who allow it to exist. Who distract Americans so that we as a people won't say anything. Who use the lobbyist for their own personal gain. Because, the fact of the matter is these are elected officials who are doing that. That really pisses me off.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by dronestar, posted 06-25-2010 4:08 PM dronestar has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 275 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 120 of 122 (566677)
06-25-2010 7:31 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Hyroglyphx
06-25-2010 11:25 AM


Re: Know what a NeoCon is?
That's not how it works in the cold and unforgiving wild, so why would the opposite be true now?
My idea of civilization is that we distance ourselves as far from the cold and unforgiving wild as possible.
If I want to know what it's like, I'll go camping in Alaska.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-25-2010 11:25 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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