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Author Topic:   Did Mod cause the collapse of evcforum?
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 151 of 424 (567208)
06-30-2010 2:50 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by crashfrog
06-30-2010 2:12 AM


Re: Fuck Constructive - Answer the Question
When Rrhain brought up the GenDiscMod11 thread, and Modulous opened this thread to re-hash those issues, I decided to oblige him.
That is the excuse. We understand that.
Care to answer the question now, Crash?
I had, and now I just did.
Still evading.
What's this continuing hard-on you have for this place, Crash?
Lurking doesn't count. After a three year absence you show up here pissing on everything, Mod, the other moderators, Percy, the forum and its members, everything. That is a powerful poisonous attitude after three years. Why?
And what's wrong with "Frog?" I happen to like frogs.
Think you could answer mine, now?
Sure. To find out why you feel justified in storming in here after a three-year absence pissing on everyone.
It's clear you're not interested in any part of this thread, so why are you in it?
To find out why you feel justified in storming in here after a three-year absence pissing on everyone.
Just to call me names?
No. But to find out why you feel justified in storming in here after a three-year absence pissing on everyone.
Maybe you could put those in an email instead and save everybody the trouble of pointedly ignoring them.
I think everyone here is entitled to know why you feel justified in storming in here after a three-year absence pissing on everyone.
So, instead of hiding behind the Mod/Rrhain scrabble as an excuse can you tell us why you feel justified in storming in here after a three-year absence pissing on everyone? Do you even know the answer yourself?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by crashfrog, posted 06-30-2010 2:12 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by crashfrog, posted 06-30-2010 1:09 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


(1)
Message 152 of 424 (567210)
06-30-2010 3:09 AM


Moderation
To whom it may concern,
I will restate what I stated in the original thread.
This is Percy's site.
We are invited guests.
We can either choose to abide by Percy"s decisions and orders or we can go elsewhere.
Many on their own volition chose to leave.
So why is this being hashed over again.
Are there those who wants to cause the same thing to happen again?
The Boss may not always be right BUT He is always BOSS. He can and has overruled moderators in the past.
So Mod shut this thing down and get on with your life.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by AZPaul3, posted 06-30-2010 3:23 AM ICANT has not replied
 Message 154 by Bolder-dash, posted 06-30-2010 5:13 AM ICANT has not replied
 Message 160 by Modulous, posted 06-30-2010 7:56 AM ICANT has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 153 of 424 (567212)
06-30-2010 3:23 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by ICANT
06-30-2010 3:09 AM


Re: Moderation
So Mod shut this thing down and get on with your life.
ICANT, i can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with you.
I guess miracles do still happen.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by ICANT, posted 06-30-2010 3:09 AM ICANT has not replied

  
Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 3630 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


(1)
Message 154 of 424 (567215)
06-30-2010 5:13 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by ICANT
06-30-2010 3:09 AM


Re: Moderation
Perhaps I am wrong about this, but I believe Percy is actually running a business here, and as such I think he would do best to not take your advice to adopt the "its my way or the highway" approach to always running things if he expects to ever make money off this site (perhaps he doesn't expect that, but I am speculating).
Sure any company owner can say if you don't like it leave, and many have said this. And guess what happens? People leave. Not the best of strategies unless you are independently wealthy or stupid.
There are other sites around that people can utilize if having people participate wasn't very important to Percy.
I give Percy a little more credit for being smart enough to not completely disregard people's opinions. That doesn't mean he needs to capitulate to every posters wishes, but it also means you don't tell people regularly to piss off. Or you do, if you like.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by ICANT, posted 06-30-2010 3:09 AM ICANT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by Huntard, posted 06-30-2010 5:21 AM Bolder-dash has not replied
 Message 156 by cavediver, posted 06-30-2010 6:08 AM Bolder-dash has not replied
 Message 157 by Admin, posted 06-30-2010 6:33 AM Bolder-dash has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 155 of 424 (567216)
06-30-2010 5:21 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by Bolder-dash
06-30-2010 5:13 AM


Re: Moderation
Bolder-dash writes:
Perhaps I am wrong about this, but I believe Percy is actually running a business here, and as such I think he would do best to not take your advice to adopt the "its my way or the highway" approach to always running things if he expects to ever make money off this site (perhaps he doesn't expect that, but I am speculating).
He expects to make money out of the software of this site, which he wrote himself completely.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Bolder-dash, posted 06-30-2010 5:13 AM Bolder-dash has not replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 156 of 424 (567217)
06-30-2010 6:08 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by Bolder-dash
06-30-2010 5:13 AM


Re: Moderation
Sure any company owner can say if you don't like it leave
I do, regularly
And nine times out of ten, they apologise and give me more business than I was expecting

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Bolder-dash, posted 06-30-2010 5:13 AM Bolder-dash has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 06-30-2010 7:24 AM cavediver has replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 157 of 424 (567219)
06-30-2010 6:33 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by Bolder-dash
06-30-2010 5:13 AM


Re: Moderation
Just for the record, I have no intention of ever making any money off this website. It's my contribution to the creation/evolution debate. The goal is to foster an environment for constructive discussion. This website is also a testbed for the dBoard software now under development, from which I might possibly make money someday.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Bolder-dash, posted 06-30-2010 5:13 AM Bolder-dash has not replied

  
Jumped Up Chimpanzee
Member (Idle past 4941 days)
Posts: 572
From: UK
Joined: 10-22-2009


Message 158 of 424 (567224)
06-30-2010 7:24 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by cavediver
06-30-2010 6:08 AM


Re: Moderation
Bolder-dash says:
Sure any company owner can say if you don't like it leave
cavediver says:
I do, regularly
And nine times out of ten, they apologise and give me more business than I was expecting
I do regularly too.
And nine times out ten, I never hear from them again

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by cavediver, posted 06-30-2010 6:08 AM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by cavediver, posted 06-30-2010 8:12 AM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 159 of 424 (567227)
06-30-2010 7:43 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by crashfrog
06-29-2010 10:07 PM


Right. What I thought was weird about that is that I perceived almost all the prickliness coming from the moderators. People were raising very cogent and penetrating points, I thought, and what we were getting back from the moderators was "you idiots are whiny crybabies", "fucking let fucking it fucking go", promises of instant suspensions delivered retroactively - combined with Percy's admonitions for us to engage in "constructive dialogue."
Did the lay participants start getting snippy? You bet your ass we did, because almost immediately in that thread our calm, constructive suggestions were dismissed as whining.
Hmm. Well, let's see.
Message 3
Berb writes:
I have absolutely no intention of reading one more fucking word from you until I get an apology for your comparison of gays to animals and your comparison of gay sex to rape. So go to hell.
Calm and constructive seems to have slipped away early.
Message 4
Percy writes:
I guess I'd have to judge every case individually, but in general my own feeling is that the more veiled, subtle and *dispassionate* the insult, the more likely it is to be consistent with rule 10 and fly under the radar.
Not prickly - it was admitting fallibility and stating the pragmatics of moderation.
Message 5
Berb writes:
If the admin/stupid to whom we are referring cannot find any other way to argue against equality under the law for groups of people he doesn't like other than to draw insulting comparison that have no reasonable basis, then perhaps he should be told by an admin with even greater power to simply shut the fuck up.
Not very respectful.
Percy writes:
Without actually reviewing the thread again, I'll just say that something like "Stay the fuck away from me" is kind of blatantly angry, plus it's confrontational and can lead to escalation.
Calm.
Message 8
Berb writes:
hen perhaps you should go back and review the original thread again. It shouldn't be difficult since you've been continuously posting in it. And "stay the fuck away from me" happened a considerable length of time after the original post that AdminPD felt was too harshly worded against that other admin/stupid.
Confrontational.
Message 18
Percy writes:
Berberry, one final thought occurred to me later, so let me express it now. If you want to take insult at the expression of anti-gay attitudes that is your business, but I also believe you have a thin skin that is exacerbated by a history with certain people. If anti-gay attitudes upset you, you should avoid participating in threads with members who have anti-gay attitudes. All that getting upset does is weaken your ability to place such attitudes in the intolerant and bigoted light they so obviously deserve.
Acknowledges Berb might have felt insulted, suggests avoiding those threads and that getting so visibly upset detracts away from the intolerance.
Message 21
Berb writes:
I take deep umbrage at that! I've been posting at this forum for years, and the only thing I have raised anywhere near this much hell about is that bigot's continuing, insulting comments against gay people, specifically drawing comparisons between gays and animals or rapists... Where the hell do you get off saying that I can't handle anti-gay attitudes or that I am trying to impose political correctness?
Prickly.
Message 24
Percy writes:
Obviously I'm just making a bad situation worse. Sorry I couldn't help. Take care.
Message 27
Mod writes:
Well, in fairness rule 10 is about specific members, not groupings of people....
That would probably kill a lot of discussion so we'd just prefer if you grow some thick skin and get used to the fact that some people in the world are unpleasant and realize that compromise means being able to roll your eyes when someone is being intolerant.
Message 32
Berb writes:
I've reached a point in my life where I just can't deal with this type of insulting shit anymore...So things have changed. I'm not as accustomed as I once was to being insulted, so maybe that's the whole problem....
I think maybe Percy has a point, even though I resent the implication from him and all the other heterosexual admins that I'm "thin-skinned" or politically correct. I guess when it gets down to it, most heterosexual men will come down on an outsider before they come down on one of their own.
Message 33
Berb writes:
Fuck You
hmm...
Message 37
Mod writes:
I'm not a heterosexual admin and I think you are being thin skinned.
It is a valid question regarding the morality of homosexual sex and sex with another species and how do we regard one as morally fine and the other as reprehensible?
Message 40
Rrhain writes:
And what does homosexuality have to do with those things that heterosexuality doesn't? Why would it occur to anybody to jump to bestiality or rape when examining same-sex sexual activity but never bring up mixed-sex sexual activity? The mere fact that the comparison is specifically to gay people is indicative of homophobia.
Ah - here comes Rrhain, who seems intent on continuing the argument in the Moderation thread.
Message 38
Taz writes:
Actually, holmes countered this with his own philosophical lalaland logic...Nem jug just can't see any difference between a homosexual and a rapist, and we're not going to see him change anytime soon...You also live in England, which has far less christian bigots than the deep south in the States.
Message 42
Mod to Rrhain writes:
It's an equally valid question - though there are few threads around here concerned with the morality of heterosexual sex. I'm perfectly happy to entertain the question and I don't think it implies that heterosexuals are animals...The fact that somebody is questioning it's morality would indicate to me they are homophobic. That is a given. However - the question is does discussing the morality of bestiality mean that we are comparing gays with animals.
Message 43
Mod to Taz writes:
If Holmes were here, and this were a debate thread I'd respond...I have family in the deep south - I'm related to some of those Christian bigots I'm afraid to say.
Message 44
Taz to Mod writes:
You've been missing a very important detail about nem jug's comparisons here. When we talked about gay marriage, he compared that with marrying an animal or a motorcycle. When we talked about homosexual sex, he compared that with rape. This was what convinced me that nem jug's chosen examples weren't innocent at all.
Message 46
Mod to Taz writes:
What's the problem with that? This is a debate forum after all. If we can't debate people with opinions very different from ours, what's the point? There is only one way to stop ideas we don't like being expressed here and that is to censor debate. Which seems absurd to me. If Nem was being disrespectful to a specific poster that would be one thing, but putting forward questions that are at the heart of the debate is something else entirely
Message 48
Berb to Mod writes:
So let me get this straight: unless I'm prepared to be insulted in the most vile, disgusting and totally baseless manner imagineable by an administrator on this board, then I need to just stay the fuck away from here? Is that what you're saying?
Prickly.
Message 49
Mod to Berb writes:
No, my point is that I do not think you were insulted, though I remain open minded on the subject and am following the discussion in the admin forum as to whether you were...I do not think you need to stay the fuck away from this forum, far from it, I just think it might be wise to avoid certain topics for the time being.
Message 51
Berb to Mod writes:
So far, you and every other admin has avoided answering Ringo's simile, so please don't avoid answering this question again if you reply to me: Would a comparison of African-Americans to dirty apes also be acceptable here at EvC? Would such a demeaning insult likewise earn the respect and defense of the admin staff?
...
As I'm sure the stupid himself is enjoying following that thread. What a perfectly level playing field we have here, huh?
Prickly, personal...
Message 52
Mod to Berb writes:
Yes. African-Americans, like native Americans and Europeans are all covered in dirt and grease and they are all apes. I can see an appropriate comparison. Indeed the standard natural history of mankind is that populations of apes from Africa evolved into the people we call Africans.
It would earn my defence and respect.
Message 53
Berb to Mod writes:
Wow, I guess they were looking for a gay version of Clarance Thomas when they promoted you to admin! It goes just a teensy bit beyond saying it's "immoral", you insufferable nitwit!
Message 54
Percy to Berb writes:
I'm going to suspend you for a week in a way analogous to protective custody, because I'm guessing you're saying lots of things right now that you'll later regret saying. Hope to see you next week, I mean that.
Would you agree that up to the Berb suspension - the prickliness was mostly from Berb? I don't see any moderator response that was prickly, argumentative or personal.
As for the the other points we've been discussing - I think we've said everything that can be said. We might not completely agree on everything - but I think we can be adults shake hands (or curtly nod) and move on. Thanks for explaining your position in more depth, it was useful.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by crashfrog, posted 06-29-2010 10:07 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by crashfrog, posted 06-30-2010 1:13 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 160 of 424 (567229)
06-30-2010 7:56 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by ICANT
06-30-2010 3:09 AM


Re: Moderation
So Mod shut this thing down and get on with your life.
Hi ICANT. Boy, I didn't anticipate the response this thread received! The answer as to why I proposed this thread is in the OP
quote:
I bring this here because Rrhain repeatedly brought it up - and I repeatedly demurred answering him, requesting he take it elsewhere. His continued, so clearly he has a bee in his bonnet. No doubt, if it is ignored - he'll bring it up again in few years and I'd rather it was put to rest. So, to give it a decent burial, we must first exhume the rotting corpse.
I just want to try and straighten things out with Rrhain, and in this was the only avenue Rrhain would accept (he did not seem to want to do it by PM, my stated preference). But - if Crash has any chance of coming back as a regular (and I hope he does), it was good to talk to him about it too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by ICANT, posted 06-30-2010 3:09 AM ICANT has not replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


(1)
Message 161 of 424 (567230)
06-30-2010 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee
06-30-2010 7:24 AM


Re: Moderation
And nine times out ten, I never hear from them again
Sounds like you need some of my super expensive consulting services

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 06-30-2010 7:24 AM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 06-30-2010 9:11 AM cavediver has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 162 of 424 (567232)
06-30-2010 8:26 AM


The Bombshell of Revelation
*deep breath in, and....*
I am Nemesis Juggernaut.
*glass breaks in the background*

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from mistaken conviction." — Blaise Pascal

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by cavediver, posted 06-30-2010 8:28 AM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 166 by Modulous, posted 06-30-2010 8:41 AM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 168 by Wounded King, posted 06-30-2010 8:48 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 171 by Huntard, posted 06-30-2010 9:07 AM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 178 by CosmicChimp, posted 06-30-2010 9:26 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 198 by Straggler, posted 06-30-2010 1:30 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 163 of 424 (567233)
06-30-2010 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by Hyroglyphx
06-30-2010 8:26 AM


Re: The Bombshell of Revelation
I am Nemesis Juggernaut.
Even if it's not true, it should be

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-30-2010 8:26 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-30-2010 8:37 AM cavediver has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 164 of 424 (567234)
06-30-2010 8:36 AM


The jaw-dropping truth
Still in shock, I see...

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from mistaken conviction." — Blaise Pascal

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 165 of 424 (567235)
06-30-2010 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 163 by cavediver
06-30-2010 8:28 AM


Re: The Bombshell of Revelation
Even if it's not true, it should be
Just let me know when you guys are ready for me to prove it, and I will
Does this sound familiar, Cave:
"I'm a recovering Christian" - Hyro
"Obvious a mile away from those in similar circumstances" - Cave
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from mistaken conviction." — Blaise Pascal

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by cavediver, posted 06-30-2010 8:28 AM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by cavediver, posted 06-30-2010 9:04 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
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