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Author Topic:   lion vs tiger
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2499 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 59 of 91 (571761)
08-02-2010 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Big_Al35
08-02-2010 9:02 AM


Re: Genetic compatibility is not relevant.
Big_Al35 writes:
Very surprising that it takes 4 million years of evolution in a predatory mammal to simply change the fur coat, gain a few pounds and lengthen the teeth and claws a tiny bit.
Don't forget character. Lions are the only truly social cat, and the lionesses hunt in teams. Tigers are famously solitary once fully adult. You don't get a pride of tigers!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Big_Al35, posted 08-02-2010 9:02 AM Big_Al35 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Big_Al35, posted 08-02-2010 10:09 AM bluegenes has replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2499 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 60 of 91 (571762)
08-02-2010 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Huntard
08-02-2010 9:07 AM


Re: Genetic compatibility is not relevant.
Huntard writes:
I haven't heard of a fertile Liger or Tigon.
The females can be fertile, and at least one has reproduced with a tiger (from memory, but I'm pretty sure).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Huntard, posted 08-02-2010 9:07 AM Huntard has replied

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 Message 61 by Huntard, posted 08-02-2010 9:27 AM bluegenes has replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2499 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 62 of 91 (571768)
08-02-2010 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Huntard
08-02-2010 9:27 AM


Re: Genetic compatibility is not relevant.
Huntard writes:
Ok, but they can never reproduce as a "species of hybrid" then, which is what I was picturing. They need a "parent species" partner to reproduce. Does this work with lions also?
I think so. And yes to the hybrid point, because the males are, I think, invariably infertile.
In the wild, I don't think the two species have ever been known to reproduce. It was possible until recently in Asia, but the Asian lion is now confined to one small area in Gujarat, north-west India, (where I saw them about 17 years ago).
They used to be a lot more widespread, including towards the middle-east and Europe. They are the lions of the Bible and ancient Greek stories, not the African lions.
They would have encountered tigers all over India, certainly, but no-one knows what would have happened. My guess is that the solitary tigers would keep away from the prides of lions, because of the numbers.

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 Message 67 by Big_Al35, posted 08-02-2010 10:33 AM bluegenes has replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2499 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 65 of 91 (571771)
08-02-2010 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Big_Al35
08-02-2010 10:09 AM


Re: Genetic compatibility is not relevant.
Big_Al35 writes:
Actually there are more differences than you might imagine initially. Tigers can climb trees, lions can't. Tigers like water, lions don't. As for being social - tigers can also be social but from a distance. For example, they prefer to have surrounding territories occupied by family. eg daughters, brothers etc. This could be pride behaviour in a way.
So, in fact, quite a lot of differences. It interests me, because when paleontologists talk about stasis in the fossil record, they could be looking at two such creatures, but several million years apart. They might assume them to be the same species, but the hard body parts cannot really give an indication of how much difference there could be.
I like tiger, or tigers (I don't know which is correct!). I went looking for them in India as well, and saw a few. They look great in their habitat. Their camouflage makes them a lot prettier than lions, IMO!

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 Message 63 by Big_Al35, posted 08-02-2010 10:09 AM Big_Al35 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by dronestar, posted 08-02-2010 11:16 AM bluegenes has replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2499 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 66 of 91 (571772)
08-02-2010 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Coyote
08-02-2010 10:19 AM


Re: Genetic compatibility is not relevant.
Coyote writes:
I would like to see your source on this.
It disagrees with what I learned in grad school by a huge amount.
Yes. Unless it's supposed to be the sum total down both branches.

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 Message 64 by Coyote, posted 08-02-2010 10:19 AM Coyote has not replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2499 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 73 of 91 (571783)
08-02-2010 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by Big_Al35
08-02-2010 10:33 AM


Re: Genetic compatibility is not relevant.
Big_Al35 writes:
Not sure I understand this hybrid point.
I just meant that it wouldn't be possible to take a male and female half-breed and make an entire new sub-species from them which would be half-lion, half-tiger.
Same with mules, because it's very rare for them to be fertile, so whenever you see one, it's actually the product of a direct cross between a horse and a donkey. Because they're actually more useful than either of the parent species as beasts of burden, people certainly would have bred them as a new sub-species if they could.

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 Message 67 by Big_Al35, posted 08-02-2010 10:33 AM Big_Al35 has not replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2499 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 78 of 91 (571790)
08-02-2010 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by dronestar
08-02-2010 11:16 AM


Re: Genetic compatibility is not relevant.
dronester writes:
It is on my bucket list to see a tiger in the wild. I have friends who have lived in India who want to plan a Ranthambore National Park India safari some day. Is that the park where you saw the tigers? Any further suggestion or advise you could give?
We did go into Ranthambore once, but just for one morning, and didn't see any tiger. The longer time you can give it, the better the chance (to state the obvious).
It was at Khana, in central India (Madhya Pradesh) that we saw several, but that was over a 4/5 day period going into the park every morning and evening. Very early mornings are the best bet.
The nice thing about it was that, in a very large area with about 100 tiger at the top of the food chain, there's a lot of other wild life about, so even without the cats, it's well worth it.
Take a good pair of binoculars. More important than a camera, for me, and there are plenty of exotic birds. The peacocks were displaying while we were there, which was thoughtful of them!
It was nearly 20 years ago, so I hope it's not too crowded now.
Good memories!

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