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Author
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Topic: Has The Supernatural Hypothesis Failed?
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 94 of 549 (573219)
08-10-2010 1:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 92 by Straggler
08-10-2010 1:06 PM
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Re: The Supernatural Explanation For Myths and Stories
Straggler writes: OK. Fine. But at the end of that I would lie to unequivocally know what your position is regarding the following: A) Is the supernatural evidenced in any way? B) Is the existence of that which is entirely un-evidenced "highly improbable"? Without the careful wording, ambiguity and seeming contradictions that have been the hallmark of your contributions on this so far. Where do you want to start? I'd like to continue slowly to make sure that you understand what I have been saying. You agree that the stories exist. Do you remember that I have defined God(s) and god(s) as human constructs? Edited by jar, : too many ys in you
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 92 by Straggler, posted 08-10-2010 1:06 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 96 of 549 (573233)
08-10-2010 1:43 PM
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Reply to: Message 95 by Straggler
08-10-2010 1:35 PM
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Re: The Supernatural Explanation For Myths and Stories
Okay. Next step, often the belief or disbelief in given a given God(s) or god(s) is based on the content of those stories. Still with me?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 95 by Straggler, posted 08-10-2010 1:35 PM | | Straggler has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 97 by Straggler, posted 08-10-2010 1:53 PM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 100 of 549 (573246)
08-10-2010 2:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 99 by Straggler
08-10-2010 1:59 PM
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Re: The Supernatural Explanation For Myths and Stories
If you simply want to jump to the end point I would answer those two questions as no and impossible to say. But I doubt that will satisfy you. Something that is un-evidenced has no evidence either supporting or refuting that particular position. But that relates to the existence of the particular thing. Beliefs are entirely separate.
Straggler writes: But probably more "often" the belief in the validity of those stories is essentially due to what one has been raised to believe as true. So the beliefs of an individual are based on the stories, and what they are taught within the mythos of the story and culture. Still with me?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 99 by Straggler, posted 08-10-2010 1:59 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: The Supernatural Explanation For Myths and Stories
Straggler writes: OK. In the previous thread you agreed that the actual existence of any un-evidenced entity was "highly improbable". You seem to have reneged on that. If I remember correctly, in that instance we were talking about a specific example and comparing different concepts.
Straggler writes: If it is entirely unevidenced then it can have originated only by virtue of someone's imagination. How can it be otherwise? Whilst the unevidenced imaginings of ones mind might possibly exist by some miracle of coincidence this would seem unlikely at best. No? Yawn. If it is entirely un-evidenced it might still exist. As you state it might exist.
Straggler writes: jar writes: But that relates to the existence of the particular thing. Indeed.
jar writes: Beliefs are entirely separate. Well they are quite evidently related by the fact that the beliefs in question pertain to the existence of the particular thing in question.
jar writes: So the beliefs of an individual are based on the stories, and what they are taught within the mythos of the story and culture. Unless they decide to question those stories and adopt a more evidence based approach to knowledge. Which of course many do. They are related to the beliefs. Straggler, beliefs can be wrong, but the people holding those beliefs still base those beliefs on reasonable, rational, logical evidence; the content of the stories and the mythos of the culture. You may choose to do otherwise and TTBOMK, no one has prohibited that; but your beliefs are unrelated to their beliefs. When you can present evidence that those holding a set of beliefs consider sufficient to overturn their belief, then hopefully they will change their belief. Still with me?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 101 by Straggler, posted 08-10-2010 2:30 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: The Supernatural Explanation For Myths and Stories
I have no problem with being inconsistent.
Straggler writes: I ask again: If it is entirely unevidenced then it can have originated only by virtue of someone's imagination. How can it possibly be otherwise? Whilst the unevidenced imaginings of ones mind might possibly exist by some miracle of coincidence this would seem unlikely at best. No? Note: - UNLIKELY. Not impossible. Remember, any God(s) or god(s) is not totally un-evidenced. To be a God or god it was in a story. I don't understand why you are having such a gard time. I am NOT saying that the story is evidence of the existence or not existence of the God or god. I am saying that the story is the evidence for the belief, the method of transfer. I have said repeatedly that all God(s) or god(s) are the product of human imagination. They may or may not reflect, however imperfectly, something that does exist. Honestly, I find this boring. Let's call it a day.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 109 by Straggler, posted 08-11-2010 9:10 AM | | Straggler has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: The Supernatural Explanation For Myths and Stories
Straggler writes: However when you want to suggest that all beliefs are evidenced you seem to include any reason for belief, regardless of any considerations pertaining to accuracy or reliability, under the umbrella term "evidence". First, I don't suggest that all beliefs are evidenced, I can't say anything about all beliefs. And yes, far too often accuracy and reliability do not play a part in a person's beliefs. For example I have said that my belief in GOD, the creator of all that is, seen and unseen is not rational, logical or reasonable. What I have said is that the belief in a God or god is based on the evidence in stories, tales and mythos. Notice that throughout our conversation I have never claimed that the actual super natural or any super natural critter really exists or is the cause of anything. I may believe that, but I understand that I cannot offer any evidence of that.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 111 by Straggler, posted 08-11-2010 9:33 AM | | Straggler has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 114 of 549 (573436)
08-11-2010 12:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 113 by Straggler
08-11-2010 12:10 PM
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Re: Stories Are Evidence of What?
Only of the stories. I don't think I can make it any clearer.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 113 by Straggler, posted 08-11-2010 12:10 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 116 of 549 (573447)
08-11-2010 12:39 PM
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Sorry you are still confused. The stories are the evidence that supports their beliefs.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 118 of 549 (573475)
08-11-2010 2:17 PM
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Reply to: Message 117 by Bikerman
08-11-2010 2:14 PM
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I agree, quite boring.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 117 by Bikerman, posted 08-11-2010 2:14 PM | | Bikerman has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Stories Are Evidence of What?
Good. Then let's drop it.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 119 by Straggler, posted 08-11-2010 2:41 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Stories Are Evidence of What?
Okay.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 122 by Straggler, posted 08-11-2010 2:52 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Stories Are Evidence of What?
Okay.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 124 by Straggler, posted 08-11-2010 3:02 PM | | Straggler has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Stories as evidence
Always open to someone supplying evidence that some god or God is real. Just haven't found anyone who can offer such evidence yet.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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