Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 153 (8124 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 09-23-2014 12:17 AM
140 online now:
DrJones*, hooah212002, jar, NoNukes, Pressie (5 members, 135 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: taiji2
Post Volume:
Total: 736,394 Year: 22,235/28,606 Month: 1,322/1,410 Week: 109/415 Day: 0/82 Hour: 0/4


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev123
4
5Next
Author Topic:   9/11: 8 10th anniversary
Percy
Member
Posts: 13215
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 46 of 63 (524177)
09-14-2009 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by dronester
09-14-2009 4:33 PM


Re: "blowback", not "backlash"
Hi Dronester, sorry, I guess I'm being cryptic, I thought the smiley would help.

Just as bin Laden could be courting favor among various Middle Eastern groups by citing motives they would like, I faked like I was courting favor with Hyroglyphx by citing motives he would like. It was meant to be illustrative.

I don't actually hold your irrational anti-Israel stance against you at all, and it has nothing to do with why I'm hassling you. The real reason is your fanatical anti-BBC stance.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by dronester, posted 09-14-2009 4:33 PM dronester has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by dronester, posted 09-15-2009 9:34 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
dronester
Member
Posts: 1123
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 47 of 63 (524244)
09-15-2009 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Percy
09-14-2009 5:49 PM


Re: "blowback", not "backlash"
sorry, I guess I'm being cryptic, I thought the smiley would help.

Just as bin Laden could be courting favor among various Middle Eastern groups by citing motives they would like, I faked like I was courting favor with Hyroglyphx by citing motives he would like. It was meant to be illustrative.

I think you have vastly over-estimated my Amazing Kreskin abilities to decipher cryptic yet "illustrative" messages, even with smileys.

Now, about that crack about me being fanatically anti-BBC . . .


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Percy, posted 09-14-2009 5:49 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3249
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 48 of 63 (576166)
08-23-2010 1:09 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Percy
09-12-2009 8:36 AM


Re: The Rebuilding Effort
This is sort of a side comment to the Obama supports Ground Zero mosque. Religious freedom or is he being too PC? topic.

Onifre, in message 22, writes:

The thing is that the US government never feels their actions warrent repercussions from those who they shit on. So they weren't "asking for it," they just figured nothing was going to happen because no one had the balls to attack us. So they continued to shit on other countries, till someone said fuck it, and did what they did.

The point of what I'm saying is that we shouldn't lose focus on what happened and lose sight of the reasons why things like that occur. If you fuck with enough people, oppress enough nations, supply weapons to enough tyrannical governments, place no value on the human rights of those in 3rd world countries, eventually, that kind of attitude will bit you in the ass. And at that point, the US government can't start acting like bitches 'cause someone did to us exactly what we've been doing to them for 50 years.

Others have also said variations on Oni's statement, a position I share.

Percy writes:

I hope the New York skyline will become similarly spectacular. I grew up in Jersey across the Hudson from New York City and witnessed the World Trade Center towers going up on my travels up and down the Turnpike. The drab, anonymous, squarish towers were initially criticized, but they eventually became beloved and a symbol of New York. Whatever building replaces the World Trade Center will become the new symbol of New York, but I hope the new Freedom Tower is as spectacular and beautiful as those towers in Philly.

The "Ground Zero" property is private property and thus the owners can build anything they want on it (within applicable laws). They could even choose to build an Islamic mosque - Boy, would there be an uproar then (but please take any such consideration to the topic cited in the first paragraph).

Now, per the "Freedom Tower" concept. Some of the proposed designs had struck me as being pretty extreme, tasteless, and provocative. To me, such is far more offensive than the so called "ground zero mosque" two blocks away from ground zero. Such a "Freedom Tower" would be viewed by Al Qaeda as some sort of insult and a challenge to "knock it over again". Instead, it's time for the U.S. to show some humility.

Moose

Edited by Minnemooseus, : Tweak.


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Percy, posted 09-12-2009 8:36 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by bluescat48, posted 08-23-2010 10:31 AM Minnemooseus has acknowledged this reply
 Message 50 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-23-2010 11:02 AM Minnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

    
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 625 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 49 of 63 (576229)
08-23-2010 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Minnemooseus
08-23-2010 1:09 AM


Re: The Rebuilding Effort
Such a "Freedom Tower" would be viewed by Al Qaeda as some sort of insult and a challenge to "knock it over again"

Which would give the ultra right wing Christian fundies more ammunition in their quest to show that Islam is terroristic. to me both the ultra right wing Muslims & ultra right wing Chrisians are 2 peas in the same pod, both Adolph Hitler in Sheep's clothing.


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-23-2010 1:09 AM Minnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 12749
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 50 of 63 (576234)
08-23-2010 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Minnemooseus
08-23-2010 1:09 AM


Re: The Rebuilding Effort
To me, such is far more offensive than the so called "ground zero mosque" two blocks away from ground zero. Such a "Freedom Tower" would be viewed by Al Qaeda as some sort of insult and a challenge to "knock it over again". Instead, it's time for the U.S. to show some humility.

I disagree. Let the US show all the humility possible to the people whom it has wronged --- but not towards al-Qaeda. Cowering before injustice does nothing to recompense those whom we ourselves have wronged. To the victims of US arrogance and carelessness, let all due apology and restitution be made, but there is no need to humble ourselves before shits like Osama Bin Laden.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-23-2010 1:09 AM Minnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by dronester, posted 08-23-2010 12:54 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
dronester
Member
Posts: 1123
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(1)
Message 51 of 63 (576248)
08-23-2010 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Dr Adequate
08-23-2010 11:02 AM


Re: The Rebuilding Effort
Hey Dr A,

. . . no need to humble ourselves before shits like Osama Bin Laden.

I understand your emotional response. However, your sentiment SEEMS to wave away America's responsibility to how al-queda became a world terrorist organization. To repeat history once again, the US gave EXTENSIVE training and military aid to the extremely violent fanatical group Mujahideen to supposedly oust the Soviet empire from Afghanistan. From this group spawned Osama Bin Laden and the eventual blowback of 9/11. Thus, American's SHOULD be ashamed that they nourished an extremely violent terrorist group that not only caused 9/11, but also repeated atrocities in Afghanistan.

Let me attempt to parallel this point with this example:

If a parent trains a child from birth to become a fanatical/radical murdering sociopath, should not the parents ultimately experience guilt when this child does murder? Should the parent be "humbled" for its failed parenting? I would think a profound sense of remorse toward the child AND society for not teaching/instilling human values in the child SHOULD be present. (That is, UNLESS you are from a truly wacked family: I remember the quote from Jeffrey Dalmer's father: "they [the media] are trying to make my son into some kind of a monster". Wow, how's that for denial?)

Thus, do you think your sentiment above is also exhibiting a similar form of denial in distancing America's responsibility to its "child" and society? Or am I wacked?

(I feel obliged to bring this up because everytime we omit America's RESPONSIBILITY to Bin Laden's victims, Saddam Hussien's victims, Pol Pot's victims, Baby Doc Duvalier's victims, Benjamin Netanyahu's victims, Suharto's victims, Pinochet's victims, Noriega's victims, etc, etc, etc., we don't learn lessons that need to change American foreign policy in the future.)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-23-2010 11:02 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 13215
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 52 of 63 (599506)
01-08-2011 10:13 AM


Rebuilding Continues
One World Trade Center recently reached the 52nd floor, check out http://www.wtcprogress.com for details.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I grew up across the river in New Jersey and watched the World Trade Center towers being constructed on my travels up and down the New Jersey Turnpike. As the years passed they gradually became a familiar and beloved symbol of New York. I've been to the top twice, once with my wife and kids in 2000 just a year before 9/11, and I check in on rebuilding progress every now and then. Today I found this computer rendering of One World Trade Center at Wikipedia:

For anyone familiar with them the very top of this new tower with it's squarish lines is strongly reminiscent of the original towers. It's as if the spirit of the old towers lives on inside the new one. I hope the actual tower turns out like the picture.

A couple years after 9/11 I was at the tennis U.S. Open at Flushing Meadow in Queens, and it was too painful to look from the stadium toward the southern tip of Manhattan where the towers once stood, so I didn't. I had more fortitude when I was there again a couple years ago. The Manhattan skyline looked placid yet moving, dominated once more by the Empire State Building and its Chrysler Building cousin. Though still a beautiful skyline, anyone who remembers the towers knows something is missing.

--Percy


    
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3249
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 53 of 63 (632400)
09-07-2011 9:02 PM


Reading material - 9/11 aftermath
The admin mode modified the topic title to make the date current.

A couple of things I've just found (yes, I know, bare links):

The Price of 9/11

Did Osama Win?

Moose


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose


    
Percy
Member
Posts: 13215
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 54 of 63 (632565)
09-08-2011 2:28 PM


Please Post LInks to Info
Over the next four days the media will be inundating the country with 9/11 material. Please post links to this material to this thread, or provide broadcast or rebroadcast times.

I grew up in New Jersey only about 40 miles from NYC. While growing up I visited NYC many times. I watched the World Trade Center towers being built while driving up and down the New Jersey Turnpike as a teenager. I first went to the visitors center at the top in 1974, and I visited it again with my family in 2000, a year before 9/11.

The NYT has some material today:

--Percy


    
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 580 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 55 of 63 (632568)
09-08-2011 2:38 PM


Bush 9/11 interveiw

Originally broadcast on Nat Geo.

Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.


"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
— Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


    
Percy
Member
Posts: 13215
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 56 of 63 (632958)
09-11-2011 2:28 PM


'Sound of Silence' at Ground Zero
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20527349,00.html

Grew up with the song.

--Percy


    
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3249
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 57 of 63 (632977)
09-11-2011 6:42 PM


The "Little Green Footballs" 9/11 reading recommendation
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/...ntics_9-11_Special_Report

quote:
If you were to check out only one 9/11 retrospective today, The Atlantic’s 9-11 Ten Years Later would be a good one; especially Jeffrey Goldberg’s introductory essay: The Real Meaning of 9/11.

Moose


    
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3249
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 58 of 63 (634912)
09-24-2011 7:00 PM


My September 2001 musical retrospective radio/webcast show
Tonight from 10pm to 1 am (US central time) I will be doing a September 2001 retrospective of sorts. The music is drawn from a (much longer) program I did Sept. 21, 2001, 10 days after 9/11. If and as you listen, you have the option of adjusting your psyche to that of 10 years ago.

The webcast link is at http://www.kumd.org/. There will also be a playlist link there, if the below link doesn't work.

The playlist - This may not properly display prior to airtime, and the individual tunes may not display until their specific airtimes. As I type this, only the after midnight part of the playlist is displaying.

The complete playlist of the 9/21/01 show can be found here.

For you in far off time zones, 10pm my time is 4 hours from now.

Moose

Edited by Minnemooseus, : Link below, not above.

Edited by Minnemooseus, : Tweak playlist URL (previous link also worked).


Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Percy, posted 09-25-2011 9:15 AM Minnemooseus has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 13215
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 59 of 63 (634978)
09-25-2011 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Minnemooseus
09-24-2011 7:00 PM


Re: My September 2001 musical retrospective radio/webcast show
Darn, didn't see this in time. Did they archive the broadcast?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Minnemooseus, posted 09-24-2011 7:00 PM Minnemooseus has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Minnemooseus, posted 09-25-2011 4:34 PM Percy has responded

    
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3249
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 60 of 63 (635014)
09-25-2011 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Percy
09-25-2011 9:15 AM


Re: My September 2001 musical retrospective radio/webcast show
Sorry about not getting the plug posted earlier. I forgot to on Thursday night and then wasn't at an internet access until Saturday evening.

No audio archive, other than the cd's I created for the show. I had carefully Sound Forged the whole thing such that the segues were precisely as I wanted them. I spent so much prep time on the thing that the actual presentations was pretty anti-climatic to me.

While the material had little real thematic connection to 9/11, it did (IMO) have a character somehow suitable for the times. My late night programing always tended to have a fair amount of darkness to it, and 10 years ago I decided not to fight any such nature - Embrace the darkness (or something like that). It was a very surrealistic night for me, back on 9/21/01. Even after the original presentation, for quite a while, listening back to the material of the first part of the show would cause me tears.

The music compilation was a full 3 hours, so any talking on my part was on top of the music. Last night, after about the first 1/2 hour, I quit announcing the tunes. Still had to do top of the hour ID's and some underwriting credits, but I wanted to minimize the talk on my part. The last hour was nothing but music.

I could e-mail you the individual tunes as mp3's, and you could reassemble the show. 128 mp3's would total about 175 MB. You would be welcome to post such on your server if you wish.

As outed on the playlist,

Bruce the Moose

ps - I'll be doing another show the last Saturday of October. It may be a similar treatment of the material I presented October 19-20, 2001. That playlist is here. That show was the last show I did at KUMD, until something like 2006 or 2007. Oct. 19, 2001 - Last show at KUMD; Nov. 11, 2001 - Registered at evcforum.net. 11/11/11 is my 10th anniversary as a forum member.

Edited by Minnemooseus, : Moderator autotype strikes again - "on topic" corrected to "on top".

Edited by Minnemooseus, : Tweak ps.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Percy, posted 09-25-2011 9:15 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Percy, posted 09-26-2011 9:00 AM Minnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

    
Prev123
4
5Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2014 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2014