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Author Topic:   Detecting God
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 214 of 271 (576873)
08-26-2010 6:42 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by Just being real
08-26-2010 5:37 AM


Re: What counts as detection?
Hello again Just being real,
Just being real writes:
You indicated that answered prayer to a request for healing cancer would count as "god evidence." But what if the persons cancer just went into remission on its own and our prayer just happened to be around the same time that this was already going to occur? You can see how this one isolated case could not be counted as evidence.
Exactly, which is why I included step 4: Show that the god prayed to was indeed responsible for the cancer being healed.
Perhaps 10 such cases would be sufficient.
No, for for every one of those cases it would need to be shown that the god prayed to was indeed the god that cured the cancer, and not some other god, who felt compasionate, for example.
I read an example once about an episode of the Simpson where Homer prayed that if it were God's will for him to eat a box of chocolate chip cookies that God would do absolutely nothing. Homer waited a few moments and observed nothing happening and so he said, "I accept your sign of nothing oh great one as a sign that it is your will for me to eat these cookies." Lol!
Lol indeed.
The point of course is that if you are using "signs" as evidence for detecting god then the sign has to be predetermined, and it has to be a sign that could not possibly be coincidentally a natural event occurring at the same time as the request. In other words it has to be very specific and very unique.
And then it would still be needed to show that it was indeed the god you meant that was giving the signs, and not some sort of trickster god like Loki, for example. You see, you can't just draw those kind of conclusions. "If sign A, B, and C are shown, that proves god exists" is not a good argument. You cannot draw the conclusion from those signs alone, you have no way of knowing if your god did indeed produce them.
You also seemed to indicate that something could come from nothing. If that is what you meant to say, could you please give an example?
Well, in physics, there is a phenomonom where particles pop out of nothing, I'd have to do some research into this, I will probably have an example by tonight.
You also seemed to indicate that if there was ever a time when there was nothing that something could still be here now. Could you please explain how this would be possible?
Via the same phenomenom I mentioned above. Also, again, there was never a time when there was nothing.
You also seemed to indicate that something can exist in an infinite state without the need to be self sustaining. Please explain how that could be possible?
Simple, something else sustains it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Just being real, posted 08-26-2010 5:37 AM Just being real has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 248 of 271 (577746)
08-30-2010 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by Just being real
08-30-2010 9:03 AM


Re: What counts as detection?
Just being real writes:
I mean if whole universes can come from nothing, with absolutely no warning, shouldn't you be worried that you could have a big bang take place in your living room at any moment?
Universes do not originate inside other universes. You have a wrong picture of this. They originate on a higher dimensional plane, if you will. You cannot use normal human experience to look at these things, that will throw you off.
There you are watching Sponge Bob and eating a bowl of cereal, and suddenly from the bowl you hear snap, crackle, BIG BANG!
This gives off the impression that you think the Big Bang was an explosion. It was not, it was a rapid expansion of spacetime itself.
Just kidding you my friend. Seriously (I like Sponge Bob) no seriously though, I can't comprehend how someone could actually entertain the notion that something did not always have to exist in order for something now to exist?
Because we have no reason to think that that is the case.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Just being real, posted 08-30-2010 9:03 AM Just being real has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by Just being real, posted 08-31-2010 5:26 AM Huntard has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 255 of 271 (577945)
08-31-2010 7:14 AM
Reply to: Message 252 by Just being real
08-31-2010 5:26 AM


Re: What counts as detection?
Just being real writes:
And what else is there if we don't?
The counterintuitive math that describes the real processes.
Actually I am familiar with both points of view, and I don't accept either, but that's a different topic, and I don't think its really relevant to my point.
There are no "both points of view", in physics it is only ever a rapid expansion of spacetime. It is relevant as to show that you know what you are talking about. The fact you "don't accpet" it goes a long way to question your knowledge on this subject, and therefore your authority in proclaiming things that are linked to it.
Does it matter to the rabbit if the fox ran to catch him or just walked really really fast?
No, but for the math to be accurate it does matter whether it was an explosion (Which ususally occurs within spacetime) or a rapid expansion of spacetime itself.
Not if your going to discount observation and normal logic... then no we don't
Which is exactly what one should do when dealing with physics like this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Just being real, posted 08-31-2010 5:26 AM Just being real has not replied

  
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