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Author Topic:   Genesis 1 vs. Genesis 2
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 121 of 295 (577227)
08-27-2010 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by purpledawn
08-27-2010 6:32 AM


Re: Light and Darkness Metaphors
Hi PD,
purpledawn writes:
You're adding to the story. You have no evidence from the story for your position.
OK you win God is not resting from His creation work today.
Maybe one day I will be able to come to the conclusion you have, if not I will ask Him to explain it to me the next time I see Him.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by purpledawn, posted 08-27-2010 6:32 AM purpledawn has seen this message but not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 122 of 295 (577229)
08-27-2010 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by ICANT
08-27-2010 5:54 PM


Re: Chronology
I'm sorry. I don't play word games.
Genesis 1 says the Sun was created on day four.
Genesis 1 says the Earth was created on day 1.
That is impossible.
Genesis 1 says nothing about the sun appearing on day four.
Genesis 1 is simply incorrect.
Genesis 1 says that grasses and seed bearing plants were the first plants.
Genesis 1 is simply incorrect.
Genesis 1 says that grasses and sed bearing plants were created before the sun.
Genesis 1 is simply incorrect.
Edited by jar, : hit key too soon.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by ICANT, posted 08-27-2010 5:54 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Joseppi, posted 08-30-2010 9:06 AM jar has not replied
 Message 151 by ICANT, posted 09-04-2010 2:26 PM jar has not replied

Joseppi
Member (Idle past 4942 days)
Posts: 50
From: New Albany, In, USA
Joined: 08-23-2010


Message 123 of 295 (577711)
08-30-2010 7:17 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by ICANT
08-24-2010 9:11 PM


Re: Still Inconsistent
quote:
According to the text "in the day" refers to the day the Lord God created the heaven and the earth.
  —ICANT
It doesn't say what you wrote here.
It reads instead....
Genesis 2:4 ...in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens....
In the first verse there was only one heaven created.
Heaven didn't become "heavens" until God created the firmament and called it Heaven.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by ICANT, posted 08-24-2010 9:11 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by ICANT, posted 08-30-2010 11:35 AM Joseppi has not replied

Joseppi
Member (Idle past 4942 days)
Posts: 50
From: New Albany, In, USA
Joined: 08-23-2010


Message 124 of 295 (577713)
08-30-2010 7:19 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by jar
08-24-2010 2:39 PM


Re: Chronology
quote:
Sure there is chronology in both. It is just that the two stories are mutually exclusive, they contradict each other.
They are two different stories written by two different cultures living in two different eras. They are NOT one story. In fact the evidence suggests that Genesis 2&3 is by far the older story, written hundreds if not thousands of years before Genesis 1.
  —jar
You offer nothing but opinion and nothing that corresponds with the text all can read.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by jar, posted 08-24-2010 2:39 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by jar, posted 08-30-2010 10:52 AM Joseppi has replied

Joseppi
Member (Idle past 4942 days)
Posts: 50
From: New Albany, In, USA
Joined: 08-23-2010


Message 125 of 295 (577716)
08-30-2010 7:35 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by ringo
08-24-2010 2:51 PM


Re: Chronology
quote:
ringo: That's where you're going wrong. You're assuming that the chapter one chronology is The True Chronology. In fact, it's just the chronology for chapter one. You're altering what chapter two says to fit your assumption about chapter one.
You didn't offer any example of anyone altering anything.
And the chronology of chapter one it is numbered day by day in the text.
quote:
ringo: I think the Hebrew scholars would disagree. There are threads somewhere about "created, formed and made" if you care to search for them. As I recall, the words are pretty much interchangeable.
The translation is clear and precise in English.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by ringo, posted 08-24-2010 2:51 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by ringo, posted 08-30-2010 11:56 AM Joseppi has replied

Joseppi
Member (Idle past 4942 days)
Posts: 50
From: New Albany, In, USA
Joined: 08-23-2010


Message 126 of 295 (577718)
08-30-2010 7:39 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by ICANT
08-24-2010 9:11 PM


Re: Still Inconsistent
quote:
At the end of this light period there was two heavens.
Genesis 1:2 says that darkness was upon the face of the deep. God allowed no light in the deep until he said..Let there be light.
The deep was a place in the singular heaven.
Edited by AdminPD, : Fixed quote box

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by ICANT, posted 08-24-2010 9:11 PM ICANT has not replied

Joseppi
Member (Idle past 4942 days)
Posts: 50
From: New Albany, In, USA
Joined: 08-23-2010


Message 127 of 295 (577719)
08-30-2010 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by ICANT
08-24-2010 9:11 PM


Re: Still Inconsistent
quote:
ICANT: How can you get 24 hours between the evening in Genesis 1:2 and the morning in Genesis 1:5.
Who's trying?
Genesis 1:2 was the indeterminate period of time between the creation of the earth and heaven and the creation of our present cosmos.
It was in that indeterminate period of time during which rebellion in heaven arose in the process of time.
quote:
ICANT: According to my caculations that is 12 hours at best unless you are in the vicinity of the North Pole.
There is no implication in the text that a north pole existed yet at that time.
quote:
Before you can have an evening you have to have a period of light.
And that occured after Genesis 1:2.
Edited by Joseppi, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by ICANT, posted 08-24-2010 9:11 PM ICANT has not replied

Joseppi
Member (Idle past 4942 days)
Posts: 50
From: New Albany, In, USA
Joined: 08-23-2010


Message 128 of 295 (577722)
08-30-2010 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by ICANT
08-24-2010 9:11 PM


Re: Still Inconsistent
quote:
ICANT: God dwelled somewhere before He created the Heaven and the Earth.
God dwelt somewhere before he created the heaven and the earth. God doesn't need a house, never did, never will.
What the capitalized "Heaven" of verse eight signifies is God's intention to come down and dwell on the earth with man. This accomplishment is prophesied in the book of the Revelation.
At that time until today God dwells in heaven with angels and the hosts of heaven.
The three heavens of which Paul speaks is...
1) The atmosphere of the earth.
2) The cosmos in which the earth dwells.
3) The heaven where God's throne is.
quote:
ICANT: God came and dwelled on earth in the human form we call Jesus.
And Jesus will come again to establish God's throne on earth forever in the culmination of a new heaven and a new earth. Where once again a singular heaven and a singular earth will exist.
quote:
ICANT: Now where is any reference to God dwelling in our atmosphere?
God's throne will be on the earth not up in the sky. Read...the book of the Revelation.
Also, note that Solomon in his dedicatory prayer concerning the temple he built in Jerusalem expressed this understanding.
quote:
ICANT: As has been pointed out the Hebrew that Moses used when he wrote Genesis did not have capital letters.
The use of capitalization to mark ownership and other things is not required. The translators of the Bible disagree with your opinion and noted what they discerned the Hebrew text to be stating.
Edited by Joseppi, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by ICANT, posted 08-24-2010 9:11 PM ICANT has not replied

Joseppi
Member (Idle past 4942 days)
Posts: 50
From: New Albany, In, USA
Joined: 08-23-2010


Message 129 of 295 (577723)
08-30-2010 8:09 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Coragyps
08-24-2010 3:29 PM


Re: Chronology
quote:
Coragyps: Wouldn't it be the "plain reading" that Adam had to be awake to be put into a "deep sleep?"
Yes.
But, once again you like others are confusing creation with generation by disregarding the topic change presented in Genesis chapter two...which is..."generations."
Edited by Joseppi, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Coragyps, posted 08-24-2010 3:29 PM Coragyps has not replied

Joseppi
Member (Idle past 4942 days)
Posts: 50
From: New Albany, In, USA
Joined: 08-23-2010


Message 130 of 295 (577724)
08-30-2010 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by jar
08-24-2010 9:29 PM


Re: Still Inconsistent
quote:
Jar: Nothing in Genesis 2 refers to Genesis 1.
Exactly. Chapter one is about creation. Chapter two is about the generation thereof, as the text informed all readers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by jar, posted 08-24-2010 9:29 PM jar has not replied

Joseppi
Member (Idle past 4942 days)
Posts: 50
From: New Albany, In, USA
Joined: 08-23-2010


Message 131 of 295 (577726)
08-30-2010 8:14 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by ICANT
08-24-2010 9:51 PM


Re: Chronology
quote:
ICANT: The Hebrew word bara' primary meaning is create, shape, form and is used when an entity did not exist.
The chosen meanings of words are determined by context not by dictionaries.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by ICANT, posted 08-24-2010 9:51 PM ICANT has not replied

Joseppi
Member (Idle past 4942 days)
Posts: 50
From: New Albany, In, USA
Joined: 08-23-2010


Message 132 of 295 (577728)
08-30-2010 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by jar
08-25-2010 1:52 PM


Re: Chronology
quote:
Jar: The creation in Genesis 2 didn't happen 6,000+ years ago either.
Testimony trumps any assumptions scientists make.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by jar, posted 08-25-2010 1:52 PM jar has not replied

Joseppi
Member (Idle past 4942 days)
Posts: 50
From: New Albany, In, USA
Joined: 08-23-2010


Message 133 of 295 (577729)
08-30-2010 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by jar
08-25-2010 3:51 PM


Re: Chronology
quote:
Jar: Nothing in Genesis 2 refers to Genesis 1. They are two different myths written by two different cultures at two different periods in time. Further, the myth found in Genesis 2&3 was written hundreds of years if not thousands of years before the fable written in Genesis 1.
Opinion.
quote:
Jar: There is no continuity or relation between the myths.
Again. Mere opinion lacking any basis.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by jar, posted 08-25-2010 3:51 PM jar has not replied

Joseppi
Member (Idle past 4942 days)
Posts: 50
From: New Albany, In, USA
Joined: 08-23-2010


Message 134 of 295 (577731)
08-30-2010 8:29 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by purpledawn
08-25-2010 8:35 PM


Re: Light and Darkness Metaphors
quote:
PurpledawnThe narrator said he rested, not that he continued to rest.
Have you presented anything that says God started creating again afterwards?
This is in regard to CREATING not forming, nor generating, nor any other act that operates on created things.
Edited by Joseppi, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by purpledawn, posted 08-25-2010 8:35 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by purpledawn, posted 08-30-2010 11:20 AM Joseppi has not replied

Joseppi
Member (Idle past 4942 days)
Posts: 50
From: New Albany, In, USA
Joined: 08-23-2010


Message 135 of 295 (577733)
08-30-2010 8:32 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by AdminPD
08-26-2010 11:55 AM


Re: Created and Formed
quote:
AdminPD: Here is the thread concerning created and formed.
A thread is required to understand the difference between the word "create' and "form"?
Nonsense. Unless clay is created nothing can be formed with clay.

This message is a reply to:
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