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Author Topic:   Is there any proof of beneficial mutations?
jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 7 of 166 (579345)
09-04-2010 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Xstar
09-03-2010 8:06 PM


I get the feeling from your Opening Post that you are not really familiar with what the Theory of Evolution says. So maybe it would help if we started with some of the basics.
I have searched high and low to find any evidence supporting a beneficial mutation. All I have ever seen is mutations where it seems as though it would hinder the creature, not help it.
Whether something is beneficial or not depends on the environment the critter (plant type critter or animal type critter) is in. What is beneficial in one environment may well hinder the critter in a different environment.
Let's look at some basics. If the critter lives in a snow covered area, then a mutation that makes the critter whiter is beneficial. BUT... if the weather warms up and the snow melts, the critter that is brown will have the beneficial mutation.
The Fact of Evolution only involves Change over Time and we can see from the records that critters have changed over time.
Also, I have never seen any evidence of a creature gaining anything new, which be required for the evolution theory.
No, that really isn't quite true. There is nothing in the Theory of Evolution that says critters have to gain anything new. It does though explain how they can gain new things.
This really makes me question evolution, since it's based completely off mutations.
Again, not quite right. Mutations (and there are many different types of mutations) are just part of the Theory of Evolution. Another part is mentioned above, and that is Selection. Natural Selection is the environment that the critter lives in. Some critters (and remember we are talking about plants too as critters) will be better suited to a particular environment then others. Those critters will be more successful reproducing and so their genes will over time become the population.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 1 by Xstar, posted 09-03-2010 8:06 PM Xstar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 15 of 166 (579487)
09-04-2010 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Bolder-dash
09-04-2010 9:38 PM


If everyone who thinks that bacteria are good examples of evolution in action, how do you explain the fact that we have studied billions upon billions of generations of bacteria, and they haven't evolved at all, they are still the same old bacteria, over and over and over again.
First, they aren't the same old bacteria, they are new bacteria. They have evolved.
Second, they are useful because they are relatively simple and reproduce quickly so it allows the methods and procedures to be studied.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 17 of 166 (579506)
09-04-2010 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Bolder-dash
09-04-2010 10:52 PM


That aren't new and they aren't really even new bacteria.
Huh?
When they evolve some new trait they are not new?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 16 by Bolder-dash, posted 09-04-2010 10:52 PM Bolder-dash has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Bolder-dash, posted 09-04-2010 11:02 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 19 of 166 (579517)
09-04-2010 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Bolder-dash
09-04-2010 11:02 PM


Some people can drink milk and some can't, I think its stretching it to say they are new people.
Good thing I haven't said that yet.
BUT... from the studies of bacteria and other simple studies we do learn the methods, the processes, what happens.
The processes are the same for bacteria or primate, it is all simply change over time. So far though, the ONLY theory that explains how those changes happen is the Theory of Evolution.
It's the only model out there.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Bolder-dash, posted 09-04-2010 11:02 PM Bolder-dash has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Bolder-dash, posted 09-05-2010 12:13 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 29 of 166 (579630)
09-05-2010 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Bolder-dash
09-05-2010 12:13 AM


Bolder-dash writes:
Time? A zillion billion generations to maintain the exact form, the exact same structure? How much time do you want?
More word salad, misrepresentation and yet another attempted misdirection.
The bacteria did change form. The genes of the bacteria changed over time. That is what the experiments were testing. They were tests to show that mutation can be the cause of genetic change. The experiments supported the hypothesis.
Bolder-dash writes:
The laws of probability say that every mutation that ever could happen to bacteria has already happened many times. Bacteria proves the theory must be wrong.
I ask that you provide the calculations that support that assertion.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 20 by Bolder-dash, posted 09-05-2010 12:13 AM Bolder-dash has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 59 of 166 (579949)
09-06-2010 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Coragyps
09-06-2010 8:16 PM


So did the damn wisdom teeth.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 58 by Coragyps, posted 09-06-2010 8:16 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 70 of 166 (580124)
09-07-2010 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by ICANT
09-07-2010 8:42 PM


Re: Cause of mutation?
Now where those immunities came from is another question.
Not really. It came from mutations.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by ICANT, posted 09-07-2010 8:42 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by ICANT, posted 09-07-2010 10:10 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 72 of 166 (580144)
09-07-2010 10:15 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by ICANT
09-07-2010 10:10 PM


Re: Cause of mutation?
Why did these immunities have to be produced by a mutation?
Because we know that mutations can cause such changes and no other model has ever been demonstrated.
Right now the ONLY model that exists and has any evidential support is the Theory of Evolution.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 71 by ICANT, posted 09-07-2010 10:10 PM ICANT has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 145 of 166 (580955)
09-12-2010 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by ICdesign
09-12-2010 4:14 PM


Re: Cause of mutation?
NO it isn't. Every single living organism is evidence of an intelligent Designer. Every organism has clear design with intelligence. Your saying it isn't true doesn't change the clear facts.
There is evidence that mutations happen.
There is evidence that there is Natural Selection.
Now, where is the evidence that there is a Designer?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by ICdesign, posted 09-12-2010 4:14 PM ICdesign has not replied

  
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