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Author Topic:   Genesis 1 vs. Genesis 2
NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 51
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 166 of 295 (581310)
09-14-2010 11:50 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by nwr
09-14-2010 11:45 PM


Re: That old Chestnut
I have read it, which is my whole point. Its been written by someone who cant read, and this has been ably pointed out by others who speak sense in this thread. Why has that not been acknowledged yet????????????????
I'll tell you why? because it never is!!!!!!!

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 Message 167 by Adminnemooseus, posted 09-15-2010 1:00 AM NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN has replied

Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 167 of 295 (581315)
09-15-2010 1:00 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN
09-14-2010 11:50 PM


And your input to clear up the mater is...?
So far your postings have been bitching and frothing at the cyber-mouth. And you going to chip in on how/why Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 do not conflict?
Adminnemooseus
Don't mess with the (admin)moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN, posted 09-14-2010 11:50 PM NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN has replied

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NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 51
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 168 of 295 (581327)
09-15-2010 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by Adminnemooseus
09-15-2010 1:00 AM


Re: And your input to clear up the mater is...?
Not until the orignal poster proves that they actually do conflict, no.
The original post does not substantiate and or warrant a reasonable response, nor am I frothing at the mouth. Im simply sending a few shots over the starboard bow to you folks. Your the admin I suggest you sort out bunkum like this if you want to be seen as a legitimate debating site. I mean this sort of disinformation has been around internet forum traps for ions, and that is exactly what it is.
I'm not suggesting that there are not legitimate debates that people can raise as discussions about perceived or illedged contradiction in the bible, but the original post is not one of them, it has been probably cut and pasted from another site by this poster and or from a muslim fundamentalist bible disinformation site.
If I really really really have to blow this pathetic non arguement out of the water I will do it on one condition and that is that if in a few weeks another illiterate decides to trundle it out again that it will be shut down forth with by your admin team because I will have proven it to be in violation of rule 4....is that a deal????
Edited by NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN, : No reason given.
Edited by NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN, : No reason given.
Edited by NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN, : No reason given.
Edited by NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN, : No reason given.
Edited by NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by Nij, posted 09-15-2010 4:43 AM NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN has replied
 Message 185 by Joseppi, posted 09-15-2010 12:48 PM NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN has not replied

Nij
Member (Idle past 4889 days)
Posts: 239
From: New Zealand
Joined: 08-20-2010


Message 169 of 295 (581333)
09-15-2010 4:43 AM
Reply to: Message 168 by NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN
09-15-2010 2:24 AM


Oh yay, another one.
OP writes:
Genesis 1 states that the order of creation went Animals, Plants, Man & Woman.
{snip}
OP writes:
Genesis 2, however, states the order was Man, Plants, Animals, Woman
A clear conflict in the order of creation. Got any evidence -- i.e. primary material -- that says these aren't in conflict, or are you going to acknowledge that a literal reading of the Bible cannot be inerrant?
And yes, you are frothing. You presented no reasonable objection, no such evidence, just a broad rejection of the thread's premise without ever actually directly addressing the thread's contents. Statements like
{the original post} has been probably cut and pasted from another site by this poster and or from a muslim fundamentalist bible disinformation site
indicate that your intent is only to denigrate, aggravate, and instigate. Not to actually debate the topics at hand.
I think that the position of annoyingly loud fundamentalist that just accuses asserts and equivocates, but never presents evidence or rational argument is already taken, but he may be at the end of his rope anyway. You could probably apply again soon when he moves on.
And here I thought this country was exempt from idiocy like yours.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN, posted 09-15-2010 2:24 AM NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN, posted 09-15-2010 8:14 AM Nij has not replied

NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 51
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 170 of 295 (581346)
09-15-2010 7:24 AM


Evidence and Primary Material Part 1 Genesis Chapter 1
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
END OF DAY ONE
Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
END OF DAY TWO
Gen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry [land] appear: and it was so.
Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
END OF DAY THREE
Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
END OF DAY FOUR
Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
Gen 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
END OF DAY FIVE
Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
END OF DAY SIX
So clearly IE CRYSTAL CLEARLY WE HAVE THE ORDER OF THINGS GIVEN IN GENISIS CHAPTER 1.
Day 1 Light
Day 2 Firmament water
Day 3 Land Vegetation
Day 4 Sun moon stars
Day 5 Fowl Fish
Day 6 Animals man.
Now I request that you provide evidence and primary material that supports your LIE that anything in Genisis Chapter two refutes or contradicts the order of things CLEARLY laid out for all of mankind to see and read through out the history of MANKIND until todays date.
Please and thank you.

NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 51
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 171 of 295 (581352)
09-15-2010 7:57 AM


Evidence and Primary Material PART 2 -Genesis Chapter 2
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
END OF DAY SEVEN
NOW PAY ATTENTION!! this is your primary school lesson in the basic understanding of the English language for fools who are looking for loop holes out of hell that do not exist.
We have come to the end of the order of things and the scripture now goes on to explain more as to how things took place NOT WHEN they took place but how they took place. OKAY?? Therefore there is NO CONTRADICTION around time frames what so ever between G1 and G2.
This is where the annoying inanity of your position comes sharply into focus. I expect, nay I demand it to be acknowledged by you ALL TODAY. NOW!! Followed by a humble apology.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
The scripture mentions plants yes, but not the day or time frame they where created, because this was made clear in chapter one. It also makes mention that man obvioulsy can't till the ground until he is made.
Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
This scriptures address how the LORD God formed man NOT WHEN AND OR WHAT DAY! So no contradiction here.
Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
God planted a garden to put man in, NO THIS DOESNT MEAN GOD CREATED PLANTS it means HE planted another GARDEN!! SO no contradiction here!!
Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
NO MENTION OF THE TIMING just addressing that plants where made to grow OUT OF THE GROUND, so again no contradiction here.
Gen 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
Gen 2:11 The name of the first isPison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
Gen 2:12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
Gen 2:13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
Gen 2:14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
THIS VERSE IS STATING AGAIN THAT MAN AND ANIMALS WHERE MADE OUT OF THE GROUND NOT THE ORDER THEY WHERE MADE OUT OF THE GROUND or which day - SO NO contradiction here. It simply states that animals where brought to ADAM to name them, it does not say that Adam was made and then the animals where made after ADAM AT ALL!
Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
Clearly EVE HAS NOT YET BEEN MADE AT THE TIME ADAM WAS NAMING THE ANIMALS
Gen 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
HERE EVE IS MADE AND WEDDED to ADAM, NO MENTION OF THE DAY OR THE ORDER OF THINGS AND NO CONTRADICTION!
Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed
I NOW AWAIT VINDICATION FROM THE ADMINISTRATORS OF THIS SITE acknowledging that the position of the Original post is in CLEAR violation of the this forums RULES AND AN APOLOGY FROM ALL PEOPLE WHO MUST NOW ADMIT THAT THEY HAVE PERVERTED THE MEANING OF SCRIPTURE TO FURTHER THEIR OWN LIEING AGENDA.
THANK YOU
MEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDDIC!!!!!!!!!
Edited by NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN, : No reason given.
Edited by NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN, : No reason given.
Edited by NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN, : No reason given.
Edited by NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN, : No reason given.

NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 51
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 172 of 295 (581354)
09-15-2010 8:14 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by Nij
09-15-2010 4:43 AM


Re: Oh yay, another one.
You have the effrontery to ask me to provide evidence and primary material? Are you out of your freaken mind?
All good bible bashing fundamentalists know their bibles, which is not why we get called fundamentalists of course but it should be, because we know and understand the fundamentals of the bible and frankly to be asked to provide evidence and primary material by the likes of you is an insult to the word of God and to any bible scholar, an insult of the highest order.
That said you dont need to be a bible scholar (I'm not) or fundamentalist to have a reading ability of an eleven year old.
Yours is idiosy of the highest order and I have no doubt you worship RUGBY RACING AND BEER.
And what do you mean by Yay another one? Go figure that there might be people able to argue the FACTS about the bible in a place like this, the sad thing is I got suckered into gracing you with a response that is most undeserved and unwarranted.
That man is created on the sixth day as the very PINNACLE AND ZENNITH of God’s finest of all creations is never and will never be under scrutiny or question especially not by some jumped up little arrogant snot nosed person who is under the delusion that he/she has evolved from an ape. Now pay attention, and go and read your PRIMARY SCHOOL material.
Edited by NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN, : No reason given.
Edited by NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Nij, posted 09-15-2010 4:43 AM Nij has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by ICANT, posted 09-15-2010 12:35 PM NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN has replied

Admin
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Posts: 12995
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 173 of 295 (581359)
09-15-2010 8:36 AM


Moderator on Duty
Please keep discussion civil and focused on the topic. Positions should be supported with evidence and arguments.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Joseppi
Member (Idle past 4942 days)
Posts: 50
From: New Albany, In, USA
Joined: 08-23-2010


Message 174 of 295 (581378)
09-15-2010 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by jar
09-04-2010 2:48 PM


Jar said: The first day. The Heaven and the earth get created.
Heaven is not capitalized until the eighth verse.
The heaven and the earth were created in the beginning recorded in the first verse.
The heaven in that first verse is singular and there was no division into the other two heavens at that time.
Heaven in capitalized in verse eighth to inform the believer that God's intention was to eventually put his throne on earth and dwell there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by jar, posted 09-04-2010 2:48 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by jar, posted 09-15-2010 11:38 AM Joseppi has replied
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Joseppi
Member (Idle past 4942 days)
Posts: 50
From: New Albany, In, USA
Joined: 08-23-2010


Message 175 of 295 (581380)
09-15-2010 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by ringo
08-30-2010 11:56 AM


Re: Chronology
ringo said: All three words mean the same thing.
And quoted Isaiah 43:7.
No three words mean the same in any language including English.
When three similar appearing words are found in an English text that was written by one who knows English, the use of the words are defined not by the redundancies that they share but the differences as per context.
In that quote of Isaiah 43:7 ...
created means the soul was brought into existence.
formed: means the body was shaped and constructed.
made: means the God did all the work associated with the final result. Which includes bringing the man to life.
It isn't saying, I made him, I made him, yea, I made him.
The semicolon is the clue that the last clause merely concludes the thought of the preceeding clauses.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by ringo, posted 08-30-2010 11:56 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by ringo, posted 09-15-2010 1:14 PM Joseppi has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 176 of 295 (581381)
09-15-2010 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by Joseppi
09-15-2010 11:29 AM


capitals and multiple heavens
I'm sorry but there is NOTHING in the story to support that and in addition, guess what, Early Hebrew did not have cases, or even punctuation.
Edited by jar, : applin spallin and fix subtitle

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Joseppi, posted 09-15-2010 11:29 AM Joseppi has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by Joseppi, posted 09-15-2010 12:25 PM jar has replied

Joseppi
Member (Idle past 4942 days)
Posts: 50
From: New Albany, In, USA
Joined: 08-23-2010


Message 177 of 295 (581391)
09-15-2010 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by jar
08-30-2010 10:52 AM


Re: Chronology
quote:
ringo said: I'm sorry but you are simply wrong there. Please at least stop and think for a moment. Of course gravity is strong enough to hold things together. You do not drift off into space. It is gravity that holds you on the surface of this planet.
This is a very basic mistake that you are making here.
You don't drift off into space because the lump sum of the local gravity is high. This result occurs only after the lumping of matter has occurred not before.
Edited by Joseppi, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by jar, posted 08-30-2010 10:52 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by jar, posted 09-15-2010 12:19 PM Joseppi has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 178 of 295 (581392)
09-15-2010 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by Joseppi
09-15-2010 12:13 PM


Re: Chronology
Huh?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Joseppi, posted 09-15-2010 12:13 PM Joseppi has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by Joseppi, posted 09-15-2010 12:33 PM jar has replied

Joseppi
Member (Idle past 4942 days)
Posts: 50
From: New Albany, In, USA
Joined: 08-23-2010


Message 179 of 295 (581393)
09-15-2010 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by greyseal
09-04-2010 3:01 PM


Re: Chronology
Greyseal said:
quote:
No, there's no magical forces, but gravity (whilst the weakest of the four known forces) certainly is powerful enough to pull planets together. Gravity keeps the sun burning, gravity pulled this planet and all other planets in this and all other star systems together. Gravity keeps our planet in the solar system, orbiting the sun, and it keeps the moon orbiting the earth. It may be a weak force, but it's all-pervasive throughout this universe.
The error is again quite obvious.
Gravity is the weakest force known. It can't pull together any dispersed matter that has more powerful forces acting upon them. The most notable being HEAT.
The orbiting of the sun, the attraction of the planets is due to the lumped sum value of their constituent matter. and, that is not the situation before there were such clumps of matter.
There is no known force by which one can explain the condensation of matter from a cloud into a clump.
Heat alone will disperse the cloud as is common experience concerning any kind of cloud. The vector momentum of the particles after cooling will not change since the attraction between greatly dispersed particles is of no consequence.
Edited by Joseppi, : No reason given.
Edited by Joseppi, : No reason given.
Edited by Joseppi, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by greyseal, posted 09-04-2010 3:01 PM greyseal has replied

Replies to this message:
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Joseppi
Member (Idle past 4942 days)
Posts: 50
From: New Albany, In, USA
Joined: 08-23-2010


Message 180 of 295 (581395)
09-15-2010 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by jar
09-15-2010 11:38 AM


Re: capitals and multiple heavens
quote:
I'm sorry but there is NOTHING in the story to support that and in addition, guess what, Early Hebrew did not have cases, or even punctuation.
  —jar
You have not proved that there is nothing..

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by jar, posted 09-15-2010 11:38 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by jar, posted 09-15-2010 12:47 PM Joseppi has replied

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