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Author Topic:   The Big Bang and the visible past.
Nij
Member (Idle past 4919 days)
Posts: 239
From: New Zealand
Joined: 08-20-2010


(1)
Message 18 of 89 (582540)
09-21-2010 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Yrreg
09-21-2010 6:25 PM


Re: Okay, now that you have situated yourself inside a box, you don't think...
I'll say it again so that it's clear:
We do not restrict ourselves from not exploring "before" the Big Bang. We are restricted from exploring "before" the Big Bang by definition of what it is.
And, also the fact that there was no "before" the Big Bang; there is no way to extrapolate data beyond the apparent singularity because no such data exists to use. As somebody earlier mentioned, people do try it. But they recognise that it is just speculation with little or no basis in reality.
It is not an atheist failing any more than it is a Christian or Buddhist or Daoist failing. Religion has nothing to do with it. It is a simple fact of our universe.
And anyone with an open mind will see you as not thinking intelligently at all
No. Anyone with an "open mind" would acknowledge that there is simply no way for us to currently do it, because of the universe we exist in and the very nature of the phenomenon itself that we are trying to study.
But if your outside-the-box intelligence has figured a way of getting around this blockage, we would very much like to know what it is. After all, science is about learning new things and sharing them with everyone. Not pretending you have something and snobbing anybody who can't find it on their own.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Yrreg, posted 09-21-2010 6:25 PM Yrreg has not replied

  
Nij
Member (Idle past 4919 days)
Posts: 239
From: New Zealand
Joined: 08-20-2010


Message 84 of 89 (585020)
10-05-2010 5:54 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by RCS
10-05-2010 12:15 AM


Re: A purely scientific background is not the whole picture of existence.
Hindus do believe that universe has been and shall be for ever. The only way to shake this position is to re-write thermodynamics
Actually, no, thermodynamics does shake that position along with the rest of physics.
This is a property of our universe. Time has been finite; there's not much ability to change that outside rewriting the (science-y) definition of time.
Why was there a singularity
Because our mathematical extrapolation models converge to one.
Why did it explode unless it was an unstable entity
1. It DID NOT explode!
2. It very well could have been unstable; no evidence is available to suggest either way.
How an unstable entity can help but transform itself into something more stable immidiately it formed
Because the transfer from instability to stability often requires passing through an even more unstable phase. That metastability -- even though it is not a global stable point, it is a local stable point -- means that not everything goes immediately to the point of maximum stability.
How do we determine that the universe is really stable, not meta stable or dynamic
We can't. Why? Because we know the universe is dynamic. We know it is metastable.
What is beyond the 13.8 billion light year "horizon". What will you observe if you transpose yourself by say, 8 blys? Will you find more galaxies and lose sight of a few others? Will you stumble upon another "universe" which is another cluster of galaxies
It's actually a 46 billion lightyear horizon (give or take); inflation happened since then and all that stuff.
Second, we don't know. It's entirely possible that space keeps going "exactly the same" forever in every direction; this is certainly supported by the apparent lack of an universal gravitational centre.
Third, whether it's a new universe or the same one depends on a couple of things like your own semantic ideas and whether our universe is truly a closed system (which would mean nothing can leave and thereby making it impossible to "stumble upon" another one) and other things like that.
Fourth, "another universe" is not simply another cluster of galaxies. The two are two separate objects and ideas, not necessarily mutually inclusive.
Which philosophy even attempts to answer them, except Hindu philosophies
Natural philosophy does; you know, the whole basis of science?
You're asking questions that a decent basic background knowledge can provide a good answer to. And making a couple of statements that just aren't correct at all.
Care to try serious discussion instead of setting up apologeticist targets?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by RCS, posted 10-05-2010 12:15 AM RCS has not replied

  
Nij
Member (Idle past 4919 days)
Posts: 239
From: New Zealand
Joined: 08-20-2010


Message 85 of 89 (585025)
10-05-2010 6:25 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by RCS
10-05-2010 12:08 AM


Re: A purely scientific background is not the whole picture of existence.
World is made immortal, created matter. Why does it not have sceintific value?
There's no evidence that it was "created", only formed.
There's no evidence -- quite the opposite -- that it is or will be immortal.
Matter possesses energy and is rver mobile. After all, E=Mc2 is exactly that. Since matter is never static, therefore no static frame of reference is possible. Why does it not have sceintific value?
E = mc2 states that mass is energy, not that it possesses energy.
Matter can indeed be exactly static. I think there's a rather large nonzero probablity that at least one particle in the universe is static at any point in time.
That matter has inertia which resists change and motion. Why does it not have sceintific value?
Links or quotes please. I have yet to see any religious text discuss the concept of inertia, nor was it ever mentioned in my science history lessons.
That creation out of nothing is not possible. Why does it not have sceintific value?
Because something is not scientific simply for accepting a scientific conclusion.
Universe expands and contracts periodicall. But never does it collapse to a so called singularity. Why does it not have sceintific value?
Because that's not evidenced at all by anything. You state as fact something which is inherently unknowable as such.
Hindus believe in a cyclic universe, and whatever can be explainede by BB can be explained by it. Why is one off BB more sceintific than periodical expansion and contraction. This model is theoretically possible. Why does it not have sceintific value?
No, not everything explained by a Big Bang can be explained by a cyclic universe.
Second, neither is considered more scientific than the other. But invoking cyclic universe involves more entites than a single one.
Hindus hold that the expansion of universe starts with a BANG, clearly, explitly specified. Why does it not have sceintific value?
Because there wasn't a bang at all. That means you basically believe in something that is impossible.
Hindus believe that even universe undergoes an evolution. If you look aroound you will find stars, galaxies etc at various stages of formation. Why does it not have sceintific value?
Because simply believing something after the fact is not enough to make something scientific.
Christians, Sikhs, pagans all accept science. That doesn't make them scientific either.
Lastly, why BB too is not a myth
Because there's evidence of the phenomenon we call the Big Bang.
Rather a complete failure, I think.
Edited by Nij, : Fix coding.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by RCS, posted 10-05-2010 12:08 AM RCS has not replied

  
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