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Author Topic:   Nasa news conference (re: Arsenic-based life form?)
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


(1)
Message 41 of 78 (594352)
12-03-2010 5:58 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Bolder-dash
12-02-2010 11:14 PM


Bolder-dash writes:
quote:
Oh, I see. Nasa is now in the business of cataloging our pond scum. Gee, I was thinking they were in the space exploration business. Maybe they should change their acronym to avoid any confusion.
(*sigh*)
What are they teaching in our schools these days?
Hint: Why were the Mars rovers launched?
Oh, who am I kidding? You won't do your own homework, so I'm going to have to tell you directly: Yes, examining the biology we have here on earth is an important part of space exploration because part of space exploration is looking for signs of life. It's part of the reason that every object that is sent into space to land on a foreign body must undergo extensive decontamination in order to ensure that we don't introduce earth-based organisms to other worlds. We don't want to contaminate any life on other bodies with ours.
So in order to help us understand what life might look like on other bodies, it would behoove us to understand all the various ways life might exist on our own planet. It will help us to know what we're looking for.
As far as we were able to tell, life on earth is based upon carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosophorus, and sulfur. To see that it is possible to have biochemistry that can substitute arsenic for phosphorus will help us determine other ways to look for life.
quote:
So how long, and how much money has been spent looking for extra-terrestrial life?
Since at least the 70s. What do you think Viking was doing on Mars?
Hint: Is it possible for a space project to do more than one thing?
Oh, but there I go again asking you to do some homework on your own.
quote:
I for one sure am glad they money hasn't been wasted giving kids dying of malaria medicine.
Right, because any research into anything that doesn't have immediate, material results is a complete waste of time. I mean, it isn't like quantum mechanics has ever had any material results.
Hmmm...I wonder what an investigation into how an organism might be able to continue living in the presence of arsenic might do to our understanding of basic biology and the treatment of toxicity. Madness!
Just because you aren't clever enough to figure out why something is valuable doesn't mean nobody else is. Are you one of the followers of Eric Cantor who seems to think that having people who know nothing about science going through NSF grants looking for "waste" is a good thing?

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-02-2010 11:14 PM Bolder-dash has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-03-2010 6:28 AM Rrhain has replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 63 of 78 (594623)
12-04-2010 3:05 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Bolder-dash
12-03-2010 6:28 AM


Bolder-dash writes:
quote:
the whole aliens and outer space thing gives NASA a more receptive audience
(*chuckle*)
And who said "aliens"? It wasn't NASA. They didn't claim to have found alien life, not even in their teasers. The finding does help us understand how to go about investigating xenobiology, but don't confuse popular press hyperventilation with statements from NASA.
The press couldn't even get the actual story right. The press is claiming that the experiment showed that arsenates were incorporated into the phosphate backbone of the DNA strands, but that's not what the paper stated. Instead, it showed that the presence of arsenic was increased and the presence of phosphorus was decreased. One reason for that is the substitution of arsenates for phosphates, but it is by no means shown. The bacteria are bloated and filled with vacuoles compared to the native population. Something unusual is going on in those bacteria, but we don't know exactly what.
So you (and your quote) seem to be sad that the popular press once again fucked up a science story and rather than blaming the press for being a bunch of hacks, you're blaming the scientists who were simply doing their job.
Does the word "projection" mean something to you?

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-03-2010 6:28 AM Bolder-dash has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Dr Jack, posted 12-04-2010 7:15 AM Rrhain has replied
 Message 76 by Dr Jack, posted 12-06-2010 11:10 AM Rrhain has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 68 of 78 (594680)
12-04-2010 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Dr Jack
12-04-2010 7:15 AM


Mr Jack responds to me:
quote:
The paper does say that their data suggests that arsenate is being incorporated into the DNA backbone. The couch it in cautious terms but they do say it
But they're couching it because they didn't actually show it. Their experiments are highly suggestive, but they didn't actually look at the DNA strands directly. Instead, they examined the amount of phosphates compared to arsenates, saw that the phosphates went down while the arsenates went up, and made a very logical conclusion.
A lot more work needs to be done and it is very promising. But again, the press has this amazing habit of reporting things above and beyond what was actually said when it comes to science. You gotta sell papers and "alien life" sells better than "lab-cultured bacteria."

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Dr Jack, posted 12-04-2010 7:15 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Dr Jack, posted 12-06-2010 3:58 AM Rrhain has not replied
 Message 75 by crashfrog, posted 12-06-2010 10:29 AM Rrhain has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 77 of 78 (595321)
12-08-2010 2:22 AM


Here's another good description of why the paper is a stinker:
Arsenic-associated bacteria (NASA's claims)
But yes, the reporters were parroting the claim that the DNA had arsenate, falling down on the job. Now, I certainly don't expect reporters to be able to analyze a technically complex paper such as what was given, but I do expect them to consider the possibility that maybe, perhaps, somebody who does have the ability to analyze such things take a look and see what's going on.
Journalism has been reduced to stenography. And bad stenography at that, as reporters will make shit up in order to sell the story.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

  
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