Hi arach,
Welcome back.
arachnophilia writes:
it's typically used for "special" creations, such as mankind, and for unsubstantial (spiritual, etc) things. but to take from this that it represents creatio ex nihilo is absolutely wrong. rather, one needs only understand the origin of the word. look at the other use, for instance, in joshua 17 (verse 15 and 18):
Since I do not believe that God created from an absence of anything I do not trust the modern definition of bara'.
I have stated many times in many different threads that I believe the Universe has always existed in some form. In other words the Universe is eternal.
God is eternal. Therefore how could there be a beginning?
Therefore in Genesis 1:1 God took existing energy and converted it into everything we see today.
God is existence and without Him no thing could consist. Col. 1.17
The root word is used in Genesis 1:1.
In Joshua the root word has been modified with prefix and suffix which changes the word.
arachnophilia writes:
it certainly doesn't mean that they are going to
create the forest
from nothing. rather, they are going to
destroy it.
I get from Joshua that he is deriding the people telling them if they are such a great people to get up to the forest they have created if Mt Ephraim was too narrow for them.
arachnophilia writes:
and examination of genesis 1 will bear this out. god divides the heaven from the earth. the land from seas. he sets up divisions of time with markers in the heavens. he divides male from female. etc. none of these are made
from nothing -- rather, the are made by separating one from the other. this idea would be
extremely important to the ancient hebrews whose entire concept of piety and holiness was based on separation from the surrounding nations.
Did the heaven and earth exist prior to Genesis 1:2?
I thought He divided the waters from the waters by placing our atmosphere around the earth. Genesis 1:6
I thought He caused dry land to appear out of the water. Genesis 1:9
Are you saying there is no land under the water?
I thought He set in motion the revolutions of the earth and its trip around the sun with its tilt in relation to the sun so man could have something that he could come up with the concept of time. Genesis 1:14
I thought God created mankind male and female no division necessary. Genesis 1:27
Now as to what we think ancient Hebrews concepts would have on what Moses was told to write in the books he wrote I see no connection. I can understand that those that copied the books could have been influenced by their concepts. Just as you are influenced by your concepts when you study.
arachnophilia writes:
and god created
ha-taninm ha-gadolim. "the great serpents".
Actually my understanding of the word is that it meant sea monsters.
I do find one text that talks about God preparing a specific fish for a specific purpose. Jonah 1:17
arachnophilia writes:
and genesis 1:1! that's a dependent clause,
Do you have argumentation to support that assertion?
arachnophilia writes:
"when god began creating the heavens and the earth..." which happens to describe the rest of the coming chapter, until genesis 2:4a,
How do you get the prefix Beit used here
בראשית to mean when?
arachnophilia writes:
well, god is not currently creating again. but, your phrasing is kind of vague. god is not currently
resting, and it is no longer יּוֹם הַשְּׁבִיעִי. it's just that creation is finished. god has since moved onto other tasks.
I can't help it if our translators used rested instead of ceased in Genesis 2:2, which would have been the proper word to use.
My point was that God had ceased to created and was still ceased from creating. He will create a New Heaven and a New
Earth restoring it to the condition it was in in Genesis 1:1. John saw this New Heaven and New Earth in Revelation 21:1.
In message 281 you said:
arachnophilia writes:
no! it says, "when god began creating the heaven and the earth..." and then continues into verse two, which describes what the earth was like when god began his creation.
Could you take the 5 Hebrew words in Genesis 1:1 as there are 2 that is not translated and explain how they came to mean anything other than;
In Beginning created God Heaven Earth.
Go word by word.
arachnophilia writes:
no! it says, "these are the generations of the heaven and earth, when they were created." period, full stop,
Where did the period come from causing a full stop?
It wasn't put there by Moses.
arachnophilia writes:
yes, and the christian division is exceptionally bad in this case. i suggest finding a hebrew torah, or at least the great jewish translation, the new JPS version.
Why would I want to use a new JPS version?
In message 282 you stated:
arachnophilia writes:
"in the day that..." which is an idiomatic way of saying "when..." it doesn't mean a day in the literal sense, just that something i taking place when some other condition is satisfied. it's not durationally specific, just temporally specific. if that makes any sense.
So if I said "in the day" I created a B24 (base cabinet) I created a W24 (wall cabinet) it would just mean when, and would not mean a specific day in which I created them?
Other than that in the message you seem to agree that a light period can be and is call day.
And that a combination of light period called day and a dark period called night can be combined and called day.
If this is not correct please clarify.
God Bless
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
™ Version 4.2