Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
7 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Evil Muslim conspiracy...
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 100 of 189 (600327)
01-14-2011 12:04 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by ApostateAbe
01-13-2011 11:06 PM


Re: Islamic terrorism.
ApostateAbe writes:
In Ireland, the penalty for blasphemy is a fine of 25,000 euros or less. Many Irish atheists have publicly blasphemed after the law was passed, and none have been prosecuted.
This is perhaps as worrisome as the anti-blasphemy law itself. The government is apparently selectively enforcing the laws which are on the books according to their whim. Such a government is completely uncontrollable; they might as well be enforcing laws that don't exist if they don't care about not enforcing laws that do.
ApostateAbe writes:
Rahvin writes:
I think that, if Islam caused violence, we should expect to see more violent Muslims than any other conceivable group - more acts of mass murder should be committed, for instance, by Muslim terrorists than any other social, religious, or racial group.
Your objections are sound. I have crawled Google and Google Scholar looking for evidence of my position, with mixed results.
Unfortunately I *don't* think that this is a sound objection. Simply saying that Islam causes violence does not imply that Islam causes *all* violence. Its like saying that if gangs cause violence we should expect to see more violent gang members than any other conceivable group - more acts of mass murder should be committed by gang members than by the Schutzstaffel (SS).
Just because being in a gang isn't going to lead to genocide on the level of the SS doesn't mean that being in a gang doesn't cause violence.
Instead all that is required to support the statement that Islam causes violence is to find an example of a violent behavior that wouldn't be undertaken unless the perpetrator believed in Islam. I'm sure everyone can come up with several off the top of their head. Those isolated murders, assassinations, terrorist attacks, beatings, rapes, et c... those count.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by ApostateAbe, posted 01-13-2011 11:06 PM ApostateAbe has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Coyote, posted 01-14-2011 12:14 AM Phage0070 has not replied

  
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 103 of 189 (600333)
01-14-2011 12:32 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by Dr Adequate
01-14-2011 12:00 AM


Dr Adequate writes:
Is there anything to conservatism any more except a habit of lying about "liberals"?
Criticizing a hasty generalization with a hasty generalization isn't very compelling. Or honest.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-14-2011 12:00 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-14-2011 1:03 AM Phage0070 has replied

  
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 104 of 189 (600334)
01-14-2011 12:35 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by ApostateAbe
01-14-2011 12:18 AM


Re: The true faith of Islam
quote:
"The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace." --- George W. Bush, September 2001
This is a tautology, through the wording of the No True Scotsman fallacy. "True Islam" is defined as not being about terrorism, but it says nothing of common Islam.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by ApostateAbe, posted 01-14-2011 12:18 AM ApostateAbe has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by ApostateAbe, posted 01-14-2011 12:43 AM Phage0070 has replied

  
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 108 of 189 (600339)
01-14-2011 1:14 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by ApostateAbe
01-14-2011 12:43 AM


Re: The true faith of Islam
The "No True Scotsman" fallacy is when someone tries to shift a claim proved false into one which is true by altering their original statement to only include data which agrees with their statement. For example:
"No Scotsman would ever perform such a cowardly bombing!"
(Scotsman bombs some place...)
"Err.. No "True" Scotsman would ever have performed such a bombing!"
I'm not saying he is committing that fallacy, only that he is using the wording of seeming to talk about Islam but is actually referring to some private special subsection of Islam where his statement is correct.
A tautology isn't really a logical fallacy though. Its simply a statement which is self-referentially correct, like A=A. Bush was defining a subsection which may or may not exist and presenting that as if it meant something other than simply defining itself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by ApostateAbe, posted 01-14-2011 12:43 AM ApostateAbe has not replied

  
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 110 of 189 (600345)
01-14-2011 2:02 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Dr Adequate
01-14-2011 1:03 AM


Dr Adequate writes:
Which part of the phrase: "It sometimes seems as though ..." was a generalization?
Fine then. Apparently, sometimes you seem as though you are making hasty generalizations.
Better?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-14-2011 1:03 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-14-2011 2:17 AM Phage0070 has replied

  
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 112 of 189 (600348)
01-14-2011 2:21 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Dr Adequate
01-14-2011 2:17 AM


Is this on topic or are you just trying to be contrary?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-14-2011 2:17 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-14-2011 3:00 AM Phage0070 has replied

  
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 115 of 189 (600354)
01-14-2011 3:08 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by Dr Adequate
01-14-2011 3:00 AM


Very well, an example is where you quoted a conservative and then expressed the view that sometimes conservativism appeared to revolve around lying about liberals. Were you to simply have stated the opinion without the quote it could be assumed that you were drawing upon your past experience. However, in combination with the quote it appeared that you considered the quote to be supporting evidence of your occasional view.
One quote is of course not representative of the ideology as a whole. Indeed the entirety of your personal experiences are not necessarily representative either, but would be much less of a generalization than a single quotation from a single person.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-14-2011 3:00 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-14-2011 3:25 AM Phage0070 has replied

  
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 117 of 189 (600356)
01-14-2011 3:27 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Dr Adequate
01-14-2011 3:25 AM


Dr Adequate writes:
If, for example, I say that some cars are red, this is not a hasty generalization, even if I have just seen a red car.
True, but if you see a red car and you say that sometimes it seems that all cars are red, that is a hasty generalization. And thats a lot closer to what you did.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-14-2011 3:25 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-14-2011 3:51 AM Phage0070 has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024