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Author Topic:   Counter-Intuitive Science
RAZD
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Posts: 16236
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 6 of 182 (599685)
01-09-2011 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by arachnophilia
01-09-2011 6:47 PM


or one that can travel directly upwind, powered by wind.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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RAZD
Member
Posts: 16236
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 30 of 182 (599816)
01-10-2011 8:17 PM


that liquid helium flows uphill out of a beaker

http://science.howstuffworks.com/helium-info.htm

quote:
Just below its boiling point, liquid helium behaves much like other liquids with low boiling points. In this state, it is known as helium I. However, when chilled several degrees below its boiling point, liquid helium enters a second state and is known as helium II. Helium II has some very unusual properties, among which are the lowest viscosity (resistance to flowing) of any liquid; the ability to flow uphill; and the capability of penetrating tiny passages where no other liquid can flow.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
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RAZD
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Posts: 16236
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 88 of 182 (600286)
01-13-2011 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Tanypteryx
01-10-2011 10:58 AM


That there are no green stars even though there is green light in their spectrum.

there is a green blob ... or is it the green goblin?

http://news.sciencemag.org/...confirms-nature-of-myster.html

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 16236
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 90 of 182 (600289)
01-13-2011 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by dwise1
01-13-2011 3:30 PM


tripping stoplight sensors with a bicycle
if you are bicycling and come to a stop light that senses vehicles, you can trip the sensor by laying your bike down over the sensor area (usually visible as a rectangle in the pavement) because they use electrical inductance, which falls off with distance squared ...

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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RAZD
Member
Posts: 16236
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 94 of 182 (600302)
01-13-2011 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by dwise1
01-13-2011 7:19 PM


Re: tripping stoplight sensors with a bicycle
Perhaps the sensor was turned down (to prevent the door opening for dogs etc), and it probably used an average over a set time period usually taken to walk along the sensor area (to eliminate people walking across the sensor area tripping the door).

That's my guess, as it would eliminate light weight and short impacts of momentum.

enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 16236
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 114 of 182 (600521)
01-14-2011 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Panda
01-14-2011 10:14 PM


Re: Counter-Intuitive Math
Yes, I remember it, because I was among those who were wrong at the beginning.

Simply put, the contestant will be wrong 2/3rds of the time, and the host will obligingly eliminate the other wrong choice.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 16236
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 116 of 182 (600523)
01-14-2011 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Panda
01-14-2011 10:43 PM


Re: Counter-Intuitive Math
add this picture then (worth a thousand goats)

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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RAZD
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Posts: 16236
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 139 of 182 (600748)
01-16-2011 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by slevesque
01-16-2011 3:22 AM


Re: Counter-Intuitive Math
I think I agree with Panda: how does the host not knowing the answer change this picture:

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

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RAZD
Member
Posts: 16236
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 148 of 182 (600900)
01-17-2011 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by slevesque
01-17-2011 2:04 AM


Re: Counter-Intuitive Math
Hi slevesque,

A third of the time, he opens a goat and you chose the car. (Sit.A)

You win if you don't change and lose if you do.

A third of the time, he opens a goat and you chose a goat (Sit.B)

You lose if you don't change and win if you do.

A third of the time, he opens a car and you chose a goat (Sit.C)

You lose if you don't change and lose if you do (which may seem pointless unless you a filled with boundless optimism ...).

∑ 4 losing situations and 2 winning situations.

Since the presentator opens a goat, you know you are in situation A or B, and you know each situation is just as likely as the other (33% each), then you also know that since you are as likely to be in sit.A then B, then you are just as likely to have the car behind your door then behind the other door. Hence a 50/50 chance

But you are forgetting to include the results of sit C in your calcs. Just because you see the car, it doesn't mean you don't lose.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 16236
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 151 of 182 (601159)
01-18-2011 11:35 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by slevesque
01-17-2011 6:48 PM


Re: Counter-Intuitive Math
Sorry slevesque, I still do not agree.

I'm not forgetting to include sit.C, it's just that nothing worth of interest comes out of doing so.

But it is of interest to me: it means there is a lose-lose case that cannot be omitted from the calculations of all the possibilities. Once the door is opened on the car, there is zero possibility of you winning. This is what changes the original results.

Probability calculations are (properly) based on evaluation of the relative success of each and every one of the possibilities (this is why probability calculations cannot be made without knowing all the possibilities), so let's look at the possibilities (your initial pick is door 1, as per the original game analysis, but here the host randomly picks door 2 or door 3):

Casedoor 1door 2door 3hoststayswitch
Sit A1cargoatgoatdoor 2winlose
Sit A2cargoatgoatdoor 3winlose
Sit C1goatcargoatdoor 2loselose
Sit B1goatcargoatdoor 3losewin
Sit B2goatgoatcardoor 2losewin
Sit C2goatgoatcardoor 3loselose

It appears that you have a 1/3 possibility of winning whether you switch or not (unless you want to win the goat). This is the way the game appears at first.

Now it could be argued that in the original game the host eliminates Sit C1 and Sit C2, and this leaves you with a 50:50 chance ... what am I missing?

Enjoy.

Edited by RAZD, : added last P


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 16236
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 161 of 182 (601478)
01-20-2011 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by slevesque
01-19-2011 10:24 PM


Re: More counterintuitive Maths
Hi slevesque,

One involves 3 plain cards with faces coloured red/red, red/green & green/green. Now if one card is chosen at random and placed on a table so that you can see one side (red say), what it the probability that the other side is also red?

2/3 ?

Isn't this similar to your last version of the Monty game? Once you have a card on the table (with any one card being chosen 1/3rd of the time), there are only two cards that can have the face that is up (ie it cannot be the green/green card), and one of them the same on the bottom and the other is not: 50:50?

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 16236
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 162 of 182 (601480)
01-20-2011 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by Panda
01-17-2011 6:59 PM


Re: Counter-Intuitive Math
Hi Panda

The thing to remember is that we are only interested in answering the question: "Should I swap or stay?"
If Monty chooses the car, then the question is moot; the answer is neither "swap" nor "stay".

Curiously, you do not walk away with the car. You still have the option to swap or stay, whether you have a possibility of winning or not.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Panda, posted 01-17-2011 6:59 PM Panda has responded

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 16236
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 180 of 182 (608765)
03-13-2011 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by Kaichos Man
03-05-2011 6:00 AM


Hi Kaichos Man

RAZD, I assume you are referring to a yacht tacking. I hate to be pedantic but that isn't "directly" into the wind. However, it is pretty mindblowing that a wind-powered vessel can travel into the wind, directly or indirectly.

Nope.

A vessel with a propeller that is spun by the wind powers a propeller that drives the vessel directly upwind. Same principal as the vehicle going downwind faster than the wind.

http://www.boatdesign.net/...roposals/another-idea-1289.html
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/11/1933_vertical_r.php
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/02/windmill_sailbo.php

quote:
The 36 foot catamaran, Revelation II, is powered by 3 20-foot long carbon fiber propellers on a 30 foot rotating mast. The windmill transmits power to a 6 blade propeller underwater, with the net result that the boat can make way even directly into the wind.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Kaichos Man, posted 03-05-2011 6:00 AM Kaichos Man has not yet responded

  
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