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Author Topic:   Evil Muslim conspiracy...
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 304 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 162 of 189 (601026)
01-18-2011 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by Dr Adequate
01-18-2011 10:16 AM


Re: Sunni -vs- Shi'a
Look, let's go back to the start. You said, and I quote:
However, with a religion like Baptist, where there is no infallible authority figure, if a Baptist minister said homosexuals were not allowed to be Christian, it has no relevance on Christianity itself.
The same goes for every current religion out there, at least the common ones that I'm familiar with. With TWO exceptions: Catholicism and Islam. In both of these religions, the authority figures are infallible and thus do play a very critical role.
The same cannot be said for Islam who still has infallible authority figures, and these authorities dictate Islamic law.
The ONLY religion where true, infallible authority is found (currently, and ignoring Catholicism for this example) is in the Muslim faith. These infallible men DO define what Islam believes. They CAN make new laws. They DO have actual, unquestionable authority over Islamic doctrine and interpretation.
Now, it is certainly possible for a Shi'ite Twelver Muslim to identify you, me, or (more plausibly) a Grand Ayatollah as being the Mahdi; just as it is possible for a Catholic to identify me as the Pope; a Protestant to identify me as the Second Coming; or for a Jew to identify me as the Messiah.
But there is nothing in those religions that says that you have to so identify some random person such as me as the Mahdi/Pope/Second Coming/Messiah.
And in fact most Shi'ites, and indeed Protestants and Jews, do not make such an identification. And if they did, they still don't have to.
So I conclude that there is nothing in Islam that makes Muslims have to follow a leader --- and the mostobvious and practical proof of this fact is that they don't.
You remind me a bit of creationists talking about genetics. You're using every argument you can to prove that no matter what happens in practice something completely different should happen in principle.
Well, it doesn't. Which kinda proves that the principles that you have laid down for Islam are not the principles followed by Muslims.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-18-2011 10:16 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by onifre, posted 01-18-2011 1:16 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 304 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 165 of 189 (601052)
01-18-2011 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by onifre
01-18-2011 1:16 PM


Re: Sunni -vs- Shi'a
Likewise, you don't have to believe that an Imam is infallible, but Shi'a doctrine still says they are.
But there is nothing in Shi'a doctrine saying that you are the Imam, any more than there is anything in Christian doctrine saying that I am the Second Coming or anything in Orthodox Judaism saying that Percy is the Messiah or anything in Hinduism that says that RAZD is an avatar of Shiva.
Which again brings me back to my original point, the religion can promote violence as a resolution to problems, but that doesn't mean that the muslims themselves are violent because of it. As you say, and I agree, no one has to believe what the religion's leaders preach.
Oh, that was your point?
What a strange way you have of making it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by onifre, posted 01-18-2011 1:16 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by onifre, posted 01-18-2011 4:58 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 304 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 170 of 189 (601144)
01-18-2011 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by onifre
01-18-2011 4:58 PM


Re: Sunni -vs- Shi'a
There is nothing in Catholic doctrine that says you are the Pope.
But there is, of coursse, something in Catholic doctrine that says that someone is the Pope.
Yes, well, Rahvin got my point just fine, back when I was still making that point. Then you jumped in and said Shi'a Imams aren't considered infallible, and here we are. You have since conceded that they are, so ...
Y'know, if you're going to misrepresent my posts you could be way more creative.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by onifre, posted 01-18-2011 4:58 PM onifre has not replied

  
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