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Author Topic:   The Social Implications Of "The Singularity Moment"
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 99 of 169 (604843)
02-15-2011 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by crashfrog
02-13-2011 5:59 PM


Re: Maybe read some of what Kurzweil writes?
Do you think that our culture's ability to absorb technological change is increasing?
In an effort to try and understand your position, and Theo's too, who are they selling the technological changes to - like facebook and iPhones - if not to our society?
Our culture has shifted the way it buys products, communicates with itself, and even meets future spouses, to mostly only through the use of technological advancements. That's how I see it, I don't know if that's what Theo is looking at, or if you disagree with it.
So where am I wrong, if you do disagree?
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by crashfrog, posted 02-13-2011 5:59 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Theodoric, posted 02-15-2011 2:05 PM onifre has not replied
 Message 106 by crashfrog, posted 02-16-2011 4:11 PM onifre has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 108 of 169 (605057)
02-16-2011 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by crashfrog
02-16-2011 4:11 PM


Re: Maybe read some of what Kurzweil writes?
Well, primarily affluent white males with technical backgrounds.
I am none of those things and have all of those things.
Are we really saying that the small number of affluent white males with tech backgrounds are synonymous with "society"? That seems ill-considered to say the least.
Are you saying black people and hispanics aren't on facebook or own iPhones? Do you know how many family members in Cuba I have that are on facebook? Do you know how many own a blackberry but actually want me to send them the iPhone and/or HTC? Shit, I got a friend here that came from Cuba 3 years ago and left his wife and kids while he did the paper work and gathered the money to bring them. He told me he didn't want to get a facebook because his wife would find out about all the women he had here. And Redbull? Fuck! They love Redbull. Never seen it. Never tasted it. Never even seen it being sold. But they fucking love it. Western stuff spreads, man. Big time.
What helped Egypt and Iran last year with their demonstrations, wasn't it social networks like facebook and youtube?
And this guy is a lot more representative of the average human being than you or I are.
No doubt, I agree fully that you and I have it far better than 2/3 of this planet. But, I wouldn't go as far as to say that, even the guy you pictured there, doesn't know of or has seen someone use a cellphone. Or maybe a missionary with a laptop. Or on the one tv he has, seen advertisment for these products.
I don't know. I think the scale would tip 2/3 of the world being familiar with technology of this level, all be it not be able to afford it.
Has Facebook been "absorbed" by our society? I don't know - I'm not smart enough to offer a rigorous definition of what it means to be "absorbed" - but my intuition is that, given that 998 out of every 1000 human beings is not a Facebook user, the answer is "no." (Probably 700 out of those 998 people or more simply cannot be Facebook users because of a lack of access to the requisite technologies and infrastructure.) I don't see how an invention accessible to such an enormously small fraction of human beings could possibly be said to have been absorbed by human society.
Let me ask it this way then, How much of our population would you guess knows about facebook?
And just for shit and giggles, How much of the world's population would you think also knows about facebook? That number will shock you. Fuck the suspense, here: "About 70% of Facebook users are outside the United States"
Plus there are a few other things you have to look at with something like facebook. Namely this:
quote:

I would say a high percentage of the population on this planet has heard of facebook, knows what it is and wishes they had it too.
Has your grandmother's? Does she own an iPhone? Is she on Facebook? Does she do Twitter?
Again, I think it's a greater number than you're giving it credit. Plus the fact that even if they don't use it, they know about it and what it does.
I never met any grand parents, but my mom and dad are in their 70's and both have a cellphone, a laptop and I Skype with them when I'm on the road.
I don't see how it can not be true.
I just don't think the numbers are in favor of that theory.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by crashfrog, posted 02-16-2011 4:11 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by crashfrog, posted 02-16-2011 6:13 PM onifre has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 144 of 169 (605347)
02-18-2011 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by crashfrog
02-17-2011 6:24 PM


Re: Maybe getting someplace
I had a few travel days. I've read where this has gone and feel my argument has been represented well by Straggler and Theo.
So I won't add much, just one thing.
that's why most human beings are subsistence-level farmers using cast-iron hand tools, and why malnutrition continues to be the leading cause of death.
I will say this, if this is your main point: In every single country where malnutrition is found, and where age-old farming equipment is used, there is also the same kind of technological advancements that you find in the US. You will however, find a government unwilling to allow their population to grow technologically for political, financial and greedy reasons. But it's not to say that those who suffer don't know there are better ways of doing things, it's just that there is no way for them to attain these things without the threat of violence.
In any case, I'll keep watching this thread from the sidelines. And add, obnoxiously, some humor to it.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by crashfrog, posted 02-17-2011 6:24 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 147 of 169 (605393)
02-19-2011 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 146 by crashfrog
02-18-2011 10:48 PM


Re: Non-Linear Absorption
It's my hope that I made it clear that I recognize you made a very compelling case for this position. I'm not sure I'm convinced by it, but I don't have an equally-compelling counter to it, either. For whatever that's worth.
This also puts me at no disagreement with you, then. I agree about not being convinced, because neither am I, either way. But both you and Straggler put up a good argument for both opinons.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by crashfrog, posted 02-18-2011 10:48 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
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