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Author Topic:   American Budget Cuts
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 350 (605663)
02-21-2011 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by RAZD
02-21-2011 10:25 AM


Re: no brainer?
Great idea - all benefits and perks (health care, pensions, etc) for all elected officials should be approved by the public that pays the taxes for these things. This could be done as part of the existing election process, when other bills etc are usually on the ballots.
This has the unfortunate side-effect of limiting the selections of candidates to folk who are wealthy enough to have those needs met elsewhere while still having enough time on their hands to dabble in the politics.
It's already hard enough to get a poor man in the seat; let's not go and make it impossible!
Jon

Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by RAZD, posted 02-21-2011 10:25 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1488 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 32 of 350 (605668)
02-21-2011 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Bolder-dash
02-21-2011 12:00 AM


Re: no brainer?
I confess, your position on this issue came as a complete surprise given the strong correlation between evolution denial and political conservativism/voting for Republicans.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Bolder-dash, posted 02-21-2011 12:00 AM Bolder-dash has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-21-2011 2:52 PM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 40 by Phage0070, posted 02-22-2011 12:09 AM crashfrog has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 350 (605673)
02-21-2011 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by crashfrog
02-21-2011 2:33 PM


Re: no brainer?
the strong correlation between evolution denial and political conservativism/voting for Republicans.
Even among the Chinese?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by crashfrog, posted 02-21-2011 2:33 PM crashfrog has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18299
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 34 of 350 (605680)
02-21-2011 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by RAZD
02-20-2011 9:09 AM


Budget Cuts & Reality
RAZD writes:
If the question is not IF jobs are lost but WHERE jobs are lost, then yes, it looks better to me to reduce wasteful spending on the military budget.
It looks to me like republicans want to cut the public sector and add minimum or entry level wage jobs to the private sector in the hopes of trimming expenses and stimulating business and corporate interests. This sort of thinking burns me up. If expenses need to be cut, cutting the wages of breadwinners in order to stimulate the productivity of corporations and business is counterproductive to the very idea of the American Dream.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by RAZD, posted 02-20-2011 9:09 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by RAZD, posted 02-21-2011 5:21 PM Phat has replied
 Message 39 by Phage0070, posted 02-22-2011 12:07 AM Phat has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1426 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 35 of 350 (605719)
02-21-2011 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Phat
02-21-2011 3:14 PM


Re: Budget Cuts & Reality
hi Phat,
If expenses need to be cut, cutting the wages of breadwinners in order to stimulate the productivity of corporations and business is counterproductive to the very idea of the American Dream.
Indeed, and counterproductive to improving the economy - the economy is based on the movement of money between people, so the more people that have money to move the better the economy. This is why the economy is based, founded on the worker and not the corporations.
Corporations cannot exist without workers, but workers can (happily) exist without corporations.
The Military-Industrial complex has grown like a tumor on the american economy, and needs to be cut down to size.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 02-21-2011 3:14 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by xongsmith, posted 02-21-2011 11:44 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied
 Message 38 by Phage0070, posted 02-21-2011 11:58 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 173 by Phat, posted 02-24-2011 5:18 PM RAZD has replied

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2587
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.5


Message 36 of 350 (605752)
02-21-2011 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by RAZD
02-21-2011 5:21 PM


Re: Budget Cuts & Reality
RAZD writes:
The Military-Industrial complex has grown like a tumor on the american economy, and needs to be cut down to size.
It's far, far worse than that. Like the mice who want to bell the cat - who's gonna do it? They got nuclear weapons. We got maybe some mail-order AK-47s and an old gatling gun or 2. Some grenades. They got cruise missile and smart bombs. They even have dirty bombs and germ warfare weapons.
International corporate collusion has strangled the whole world.
Over 90% of all the world's criminal activity is done at the behest of the Top Fortune 500 corporations. When the profits of corporations have been and still are held so much more important than the citizens of the United States, we got Trouble, and that starts with T which rhymes with P and that stands for Pool. Too big to fail? They can have you killed for maybe 10 bucks. With a mere flick of the wrist, if you so much as look like you are in their way. Democracy? Federalism? Justice? Constitution? Freedom? All long, long gone into the dustbin of history. It was a nice idea, until greed got in the way. Sundown on the Union. This country's ruled by violence, better get that through your head.
Look at all these liberal whiners in the media complaining about a future disaster that they haven't even recognized has already occurred in the past. Where's my man Dronester?
You want a budget cut? Maybe better to Hope for the Singularity to eat them alive...maybe cut them open on live TV.
I'd watch that. With fries.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by RAZD, posted 02-21-2011 5:21 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Phage0070, posted 02-21-2011 11:56 PM xongsmith has not replied

Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 350 (605753)
02-21-2011 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by xongsmith
02-21-2011 11:44 PM


Re: Budget Cuts & Reality
xongsmith writes:
Over 90% of all the world's criminal activity is done at the behest of the Top Fortune 500 corporations.
Whaaaaaat? Cite. Sounds like you are a bit too gullible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by xongsmith, posted 02-21-2011 11:44 PM xongsmith has not replied

Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 350 (605754)
02-21-2011 11:58 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by RAZD
02-21-2011 5:21 PM


Re: Budget Cuts & Reality
RAZD writes:
Corporations cannot exist without workers, but workers can (happily) exist without corporations.
Thats because corporations *are* workers. Organized workers dedicated to a common goal, but its all just workers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by RAZD, posted 02-21-2011 5:21 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by xongsmith, posted 02-22-2011 12:24 AM Phage0070 has replied
 Message 54 by RAZD, posted 02-22-2011 10:27 AM Phage0070 has replied

Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 350 (605760)
02-22-2011 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Phat
02-21-2011 3:14 PM


Re: Budget Cuts & Reality
Phat writes:
If expenses need to be cut, cutting the wages of breadwinners in order to stimulate the productivity of corporations and business is counterproductive to the very idea of the American Dream.
Historically the public sector is significantly more wasteful than the private sector, due to the lack of any meaningful competition. I also disagree that the American Dream is to be taxed in order to pay the wages of "breadwinners". If a public sector job can be transferred to the private sector without compromising its execution then its always going to be a good idea.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 02-21-2011 3:14 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by xongsmith, posted 02-22-2011 12:37 AM Phage0070 has replied
 Message 48 by nwr, posted 02-22-2011 1:08 AM Phage0070 has replied
 Message 53 by crashfrog, posted 02-22-2011 10:26 AM Phage0070 has replied
 Message 56 by RAZD, posted 02-22-2011 10:50 AM Phage0070 has replied

Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 350 (605763)
02-22-2011 12:09 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by crashfrog
02-21-2011 2:33 PM


Re: no brainer?
crashfrog writes:
I confess, your position on this issue came as a complete surprise given the strong correlation between evolution denial and political conservativism/voting for Republicans.
There is also a strong correlation between eating rice and Communism. You should probably reexamine your expectations if Capitalist sushi-eaters are a complete surprise.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by crashfrog, posted 02-21-2011 2:33 PM crashfrog has not replied

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2587
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.5


Message 41 of 350 (605771)
02-22-2011 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Phage0070
02-21-2011 11:58 PM


Re: Budget Cuts & Reality
Phage0070 writes:
Thats because corporations *are* workers. Organized workers dedicated to a common goal, but its all just workers.
WTF are you smokin'? I want some.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Phage0070, posted 02-21-2011 11:58 PM Phage0070 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Phage0070, posted 02-22-2011 12:27 AM xongsmith has replied

Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 350 (605773)
02-22-2011 12:27 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by xongsmith
02-22-2011 12:24 AM


Re: Budget Cuts & Reality
xongsmith writes:
Phage0070 writes:
Thats because corporations *are* workers. Organized workers dedicated to a common goal, but its all just workers.
WTF are you smokin'? I want some.
Do you disagree? A corporation is simply an organization of workers which is tailored to certain types of investment.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by xongsmith, posted 02-22-2011 12:24 AM xongsmith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by xongsmith, posted 02-22-2011 12:45 AM Phage0070 has replied
 Message 64 by Taq, posted 02-22-2011 3:48 PM Phage0070 has replied

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2587
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.5


Message 43 of 350 (605775)
02-22-2011 12:37 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Phage0070
02-22-2011 12:07 AM


Re: Budget Cuts & Reality
Phage0070 writes:
Historically the public sector is significantly more wasteful than the private sector, due to the lack of any meaningful competition....[deletia]...
Historically the public sector is doing all the important work. They are not making pet rocks or hula hoops or french fries. They are teachers, firefighters, policemen, soldiers, highway repairmen, snowplowers, librarians, garbage collectors and so on.
You are arguing that making pet rocks is less wasteful than teaching our children. You are arguing that running American Idol is less wasteful than the providing our soldiers with adequate protection from IEDs. You are arguing that a computer store is less wasteful than a firestation.
Good luck with that.
If a public sector job can be transferred to the private sector without compromising its execution then its always going to be a good idea.
That has never happened.
Ever.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Phage0070, posted 02-22-2011 12:07 AM Phage0070 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Phage0070, posted 02-22-2011 12:46 AM xongsmith has not replied

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2587
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.5


Message 44 of 350 (605776)
02-22-2011 12:45 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Phage0070
02-22-2011 12:27 AM


Re: Budget Cuts & Reality
Phage0070 writes:
Do you disagree? A corporation is simply an organization of workers which is tailored to certain types of investment.
A corporation is nothing less than a dictatorship, dude. The minions at the bottom get shit on by the overlords on top. The more unions are broken, the more the overlords shit on them.
C'mon this is easy shit. I've seen a lot better from you elsewhere. You are disappointing me. Maybe employee-owned companies. But what, Avis Rent-A-Car, SAIC,...some others...possibly The Green Bay Packers - but by far in the extreme minority here. They are tolerated exceptions.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Phage0070, posted 02-22-2011 12:27 AM Phage0070 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Phage0070, posted 02-22-2011 12:50 AM xongsmith has replied

Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 350 (605777)
02-22-2011 12:46 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by xongsmith
02-22-2011 12:37 AM


Re: Budget Cuts & Reality
xongsmith writes:
Historically the public sector is doing all the important work.
There are certainly many important things the government must do, but certainly not all the important things. For instance almost everything you eat wasn't made by the public sector. How you get to work, how you cloth yourself, how your shelter is built, thats all mostly private sector. The drugs you buy and the healthcare you receive are mostly private sector.
And for most of the things which are provided by the public sector there are private alternatives which are superior in some cases. For instance private teachers, private firefighters, private security, private road maintenance, private librarians, private garbage collection services, etc.
xongsmith writes:
You are arguing that making pet rocks is less wasteful than teaching our children. You are arguing that running American Idol is less wasteful than the providing our soldiers with adequate protection from IEDs. You are arguing that a computer store is less wasteful than a firestation.
And you are arguing a straw man.
xongsmith writes:
If a public sector job can be transferred to the private sector without compromising its execution then its always going to be a good idea.
That has never happened.
Ever.
Then you would argue that a command economy where every possible industry, good, or service is run by the government must necessarily be more efficient and operate in a superior manner than in an economy with a private sector, right?
In that case you are simply ignorant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by xongsmith, posted 02-22-2011 12:37 AM xongsmith has not replied

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