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Member (Idle past 2959 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Does the Darwinian theory require modification or replacement? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 309 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
It surely seems some scientists are in fact challenging the modern synthesis. A scientist investigating genetic mechanisms for evolution is participating in the modern synthesis. That's what it's all about.
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shadow71 Member (Idle past 2959 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
taq writes: already read it. It is wrong. You don't get to present expert testimony even as a written affidavit. Even worse, you don't get to present your interpretation of the expert testimony as evidence. Expert witnesses have to present the data that supports their conclusion, and they have to be available for cross. That's how it works. That is how it worked in the famous Dover ID trial where ID advocates were not allowed to submit written affidavits. They had to be available for cross. You should know that. Taq, your on my territory now. You did not fully read my post or misunderstood it.Here is my quote shadow writes: In re the Expert. The evidence would be presented by the Expert under direct examination by Plaintiff's counsel and then cross examination by defendants's counselThe data would be admitted by both the experts testimony and the admission of the papers into evidence.The jury, in some cases, may even take the actual papers with them to the jury consulation room where they reach their verdict. There is no hearsay problem under that procedure. I am clearly saying that the expert is on the witness stand under both direct and cross examination. That his testimony and ID'ed documents would also be admitted into evidence. The Dover trial was a bench trial, i.e. before a judge with no jury. However both Plantiff's and Defendant's attorneys made closing arguments to the judge as to what they believed the evidence showed.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Taq Member Posts: 10067 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
shadow writes: In re the Expert. The evidence would be presented by the Expert under direct examination by Plaintiff's counsel and then cross examination by defendants's counsel The data would be admitted by both the experts testimony and the admission of the papers into evidence.The jury, in some cases, may even take the actual papers with them to the jury consulation room where they reach their verdict. Then please show us the presentation of the evidence.
The Dover trial was a bench trial, i.e. before a judge with no jury. However both Plantiff's and Defendant's attorneys made closing arguments to the judge as to what they believed the evidence showed.
That evidence was first presented by the witnesses who were cross examined.
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shadow71 Member (Idle past 2959 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
She seems to be challenging the experiments of Luria and Delbruck in re random mutations that Taq previously cited.
taq writes: What data does she cite that challenges the Luria and Delbruck's conclusions? These are the sources cilted in Wrights paper.
Wright writes: Transcriptional activation as a mechanism for increasing mutation rates was first proposed in 1971, by Brock (8) and Herman and Dworkin (38). Their work demonstrates that recA-independent lac reversion rates of frameshift and point mutations are higher when transcription is induced by isopropyl--D-thiogalactopyranoside (IPTG), and that the effect is specific. More recently, specifically induced, transcription-enhanced mutations have also been shown for a lys frameshift mutation in Saccharomyces cerevisiae (16, 74). Starvation-induced stringent response mutations in E. coli (62, 109-111) and Bacillus subtilis (90) occur as a result of transcriptional activation triggered by gene derepression, not induction. In this system, mutations arise during the transition between growth and stationary phase and they are recA independent, similar to the lac reversions mentioned above. This distinguishes them from prolonged stress-induced adaptive mutations (11) and from DNA damage-induced SOS mutagenesis (104), both of which require recA (and will not be discussed in this minireview). It is noteworthy that the experiments described above on the effects of artificially induced transcription on mutation rates in growing cells are all examples of specifically directed mutations. However, none of the researchers come to that conclusion or challenge the assumptions and implications inherent in the experiments of Luria and Delbruck (63), which reinforce neo-Darwinism. I will be gone from this board for a about a week but when I return I will try to reply to all messages. I will be at New Melleray – A Cistercian Abbey praying for all on this board and relaxing in contemplative prayer and reflection.Talk to you all in about a week
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9196 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
praying for all on this board
Please do not insult me by performing your voodoo of praying for me. By doing that you imply there is something wrong with me that needs to be fixed. Nothing wrong, nothing needs to be fixed. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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shadow71 Member (Idle past 2959 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
theodoric writes:
Please do not insult me by performing your voodoo of praying for me.By doing that you imply there is something wrong with me that needs to be fixed. Nothing wrong, nothing needs to be fixed. No offense meant Theodroic. I am glad that your are perfect, but, I guess I will pray that perhaps your attitude will change and you become a little more tolerant and forgiving of those who do not agree with you.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Theodoric writes: praying for all on this board
Please do not insult me by performing your voodoo of praying for me. By doing that you imply there is something wrong with me that needs to be fixed. Nothing wrong, nothing needs to be fixed. I don't think shadow71 meant anything like that. He just means to wish us well until he returns.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9196 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
I tell you I find your wanting to pray for me offensive and then you compound it. What an asshole.
I am glad that your are perfect, but, I guess I will pray that perhaps your attitude will change and you become a little more tolerant and forgiving of those who do not agree with you.
Amazing how you turned around what I said to fit your purposes. Maybe you should take your own advice and be more tolerant. It seems you are the one with toleration issues. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4170 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined: |
If you want to help me then vote for somebody that might help the construction industry. Lord knows we need a bailout.
Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9196 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
I don't think shadow71 meant anything like that. He just means to wish us well until he returns. Exactly the point. He doesn't understand or think that what he thinks is a wonderful thing, is in fact offensive to some people. If he wants to wish us well he should do it. Not pray for us. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 309 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
I will be gone from this board for a about a week but when I return I will try to reply to all messages. I will be at New Melleray – A Cistercian Abbey praying for all on this board Thank you so much. In return, I shall spend much of the week dedicating your soul unto Ba'al-Hamon, Lord of the Multitude, in the goetic rite of the Threefold Sacrifice. I go now to purify myself.
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Truplayer Junior Member (Idle past 4776 days) Posts: 1 Joined: |
Under this hypothesis intelligence would be required to establish the mechanical and chemical forces that drive 'Natural Genetic Engineering'.
Is the intelligence that determined these forces from (1) an external source (God), (2) part of life itself (i.e. life itself has inherent intelligence) or (3) randomly exists along with all the other "ordering" forces in the universe (like gravity, thermodynamics, mathematics, physics, chemistry, psychology, etc.)?
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
jar writes: So Shadow is once again just blowing smoke? Yes. He seems to believe that others understanding of court room procedures are on par with his own understanding of science. He isn't the only lawyer posting here. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.4
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I don't agree.
The "modern" synthesis dates from the 30s and 40s. It includes nothing about genetic mechanisms because, back then, we didn't even know about DNA. The modern synthesis remains broadly correct in its overarching view, but its been wildly superseded. That current evolutionary thinking isn't exactly in line with a body of knowledge constructed a lifetime ago shouldn't surprise anyone. Edited by Mr Jack, : No reason given.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9196 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
I wonder how he would feel if someone offered to perform a voodoo ritual over him.
Or if wished him a good life, but hope that when he dies, his body is put into a hole in the ground so it can rot and creatures in the soil can get to it(legal in Wisconsin). That is my wish for my body. Would a number of people feel that is offensive? Yes. That is why I don't tell people that I wish that for them. Instead of IOKIYAR, with IOKIYAC(It's OK if you're a christian). Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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