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Author Topic:   YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, adonai, lord, elohim, god, allah, Allah thread.
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 76 of 298 (60947)
10-15-2003 1:27 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Amlodhi
10-10-2003 11:09 PM


Re: Paranoia?
Amlodi, you're right. I wasn't thinking. However, after Cyrus ordered the temple to be repaired in the 5th century until and after Artaxerxes, King of Babylon allowed Nehemiah to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem the temple worship was somewhat intact and my understanding it was after this time of a measure of revival that not much was going on in the southern kingdom all the way down to after Christ when they were destroyed and scattered. It was these last three or four centuries that the name became unspoken, from what I can determine.
[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 10-15-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Amlodhi, posted 10-10-2003 11:09 PM Amlodhi has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 77 of 298 (60948)
10-15-2003 2:14 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by John
10-11-2003 9:53 AM


quote:
That may be the claim, but it would be a very difficult thing to do. it would virtually impossible for us to know if they succeeded. Then, it is obvious by the time of the Qumram colony that things were not copied exactly-- there were multiple variants. All the texts we have are after this period, so we can't really know what is a exact copy or not.
When copying scripture, the scribes were required to copy a letter at a time, looking at the text and copying by the letter, not the whole word. This is how careful they were to get it right.
quote:
It is in the latter books that the frequency of the name decreases, and then disappears. This isn't re-editting of the ancient texts, but simply not using the name in the first place.
To which books are you referring? Haggai, Zephaniah, and Zechariah were written in the 4th century and Malachai in the 3rd. They all used the name, indicating that even in these centuries the men of God used the name. The New Testament doesn't use it at all, and for a reason. Jesus taught the desciples to call Jehovah Father as in the Lord's Prayer. He elaborated more on it in texts like John 14 to 16 where he said things like, "you shall no longer ask me anything, but what you ask the Father in my name he will give you." This is because of the new thing of being spriritually born, i.e. born again of God's spirit, allowing Christians to be called the children of God.
------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by John, posted 10-11-2003 9:53 AM John has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Rei, posted 10-15-2003 3:32 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 79 by Zhimbo, posted 10-15-2003 4:37 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Rei
Member (Idle past 7012 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 78 of 298 (60950)
10-15-2003 3:32 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Buzsaw
10-15-2003 2:14 AM


quote:
When copying scripture, the scribes were required to copy a letter at a time, looking at the text and copying by the letter, not the whole word. This is how careful they were to get it right.
Then how do you deal with the Ezra/Nehmiah (and other parallel text) contradictions?
------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

This message is a reply to:
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Zhimbo
Member (Idle past 6011 days)
Posts: 571
From: New Hampshire, USA
Joined: 07-28-2001


Message 79 of 298 (60953)
10-15-2003 4:37 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Buzsaw
10-15-2003 2:14 AM


quote:
When copying scripture, the scribes were required to copy a letter at a time, looking at the text and copying by the letter, not the whole word. This is how careful they were to get it right.
This is contradicted by
quote:
Then, it is obvious by the time of the Qumram colony that things were not copied exactly-- there were multiple variants. All the texts we have are after this period, so we can't really know what is a exact copy or not.
Surely you see that both your assertion and John's can't BOTH be right...or, at least, that if you're right it didn't stop variants from emerging and thus is irrelevant as a reply. Or is John wrong?
[This message has been edited by Zhimbo, 10-15-2003]

This message is a reply to:
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Prozacman
Inactive Member


Message 80 of 298 (61021)
10-15-2003 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Primordial Egg
10-14-2003 10:44 AM


Re: houri heaven
What is "houri heaven"? And, I'm sorry, but I'm a little confused with your reply #75. Are you saying that christians&jews get a chance to repent to Allah on J-Day, thereby going to Allah's heaven while already practicing Muslims aren't allowed to repent on J-Day? Please disentangle my thought processes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Primordial Egg, posted 10-14-2003 10:44 AM Primordial Egg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by John, posted 10-15-2003 8:31 PM Prozacman has replied
 Message 84 by Primordial Egg, posted 10-29-2003 8:36 AM Prozacman has replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 298 (61080)
10-15-2003 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Prozacman
10-15-2003 2:09 PM


Re: houri heaven
Certain passages of the Quran read as if the Jews and Christians have nothing to fear on judgement day.
2:62. Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
Pickthal's Quran Translation
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Prozacman, posted 10-15-2003 2:09 PM Prozacman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Prozacman, posted 10-16-2003 10:43 AM John has replied
 Message 86 by Buzsaw, posted 11-22-2003 8:46 PM John has not replied

  
Prozacman
Inactive Member


Message 82 of 298 (61163)
10-16-2003 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by John
10-15-2003 8:31 PM


Re: houri heaven
Well, that's just spiffy; the implication is that christians, jews,and sabaeans(whatever they are) already believe in Allah & do right, and therfor will go to Allah's heaven on the Last Day. If that's true then all "spiritual" descendants of Abraham go to heaven if they do right,etc. Then, why all these requirements for muslims: praying while facing east 5 x a day, travelling to Mecca, etc.?? AND, What is houri heaven?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by John, posted 10-15-2003 8:31 PM John has replied

Replies to this message:
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John
Inactive Member


Message 83 of 298 (61176)
10-16-2003 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Prozacman
10-16-2003 10:43 AM


Re: houri heaven
quote:
AND, What is houri heaven?
Think... playboy mansion without the VD. Just google 'houri'
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Prozacman, posted 10-16-2003 10:43 AM Prozacman has not replied

  
Primordial Egg
Inactive Member


Message 84 of 298 (63285)
10-29-2003 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Prozacman
10-15-2003 2:09 PM


Re: houri heaven
What is "houri heaven"?
The houris are the name for the fair skinned ever-pleasing 72 virgins that a Muslim male purportedly receives in heaven, as reward for a lifetime of devotion. Although to be fair, I've heard recently that "houri" can also be translated as "raisin".
Are you saying that christians&jews get a chance to repent to Allah on J-Day, thereby going to Allah's heaven
Yes.
while already practicing Muslims aren't allowed to repent on J-Day?
If Islam was the One True Religion (TM), then Muslims wouldn't need to repent, surely?
PE

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Prozacman, posted 10-15-2003 2:09 PM Prozacman has replied

Replies to this message:
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Prozacman
Inactive Member


Message 85 of 298 (63447)
10-30-2003 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Primordial Egg
10-29-2003 8:36 AM


Re: houri heaven
WELL, NOW i'm positively sure I know what they think of women, and it's not very respectful.PM

This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 86 of 298 (68659)
11-22-2003 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by John
10-15-2003 8:31 PM


Re: houri heaven
quote:
Certain passages of the Quran read as if the Jews and Christians have nothing to fear on judgement day.
But the Quranic scripture you cited included the stipulation that these must believe in the Quranic Allah, which does not equate to the Christian/Jewish god, Jehovah.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by John, posted 10-15-2003 8:31 PM John has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Rei, posted 11-24-2003 1:23 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Rei
Member (Idle past 7012 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 87 of 298 (68978)
11-24-2003 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Buzsaw
11-22-2003 8:46 PM


Re: houri heaven
As I've mentioned before, the word "allah" is derrived form the same root as "eloah", one of the biblical names for God.
------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Buzsaw, posted 11-22-2003 8:46 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Chavalon, posted 11-24-2003 6:03 PM Rei has not replied
 Message 91 by Buzsaw, posted 12-02-2003 10:58 PM Rei has not replied

  
Chavalon
Inactive Member


Message 88 of 298 (69046)
11-24-2003 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Rei
11-24-2003 1:23 PM


The quran is very clear on this: Allah is the God of Moses and Jesus.
002.136 Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.
003.003 He hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture with truth, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.
You may not believe it, but moslems do.
Edited to add - sorry, that was a reply to Buzsaw
[This message has been edited by Chavalon, 11-24-2003]
[This message has been edited by Chavalon, 11-24-2003]

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Abshalom
Inactive Member


Message 89 of 298 (70600)
12-02-2003 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by PaulK
10-06-2003 11:06 AM


Re: A simple question for Buzsaw
Paul:
According to Muhammad, it was the Israelite archangel "Gabriel" who appeared and spoke in a language unfamiliar to Muhammad. Then Muhammad had to ponder over Gabriel's presentation for some time before translating it to a scribe who wrote it down as Muhammed recited.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by PaulK, posted 10-06-2003 11:06 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by PaulK, posted 12-02-2003 4:11 PM Abshalom has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 90 of 298 (70616)
12-02-2003 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Abshalom
12-02-2003 2:41 PM


Re: A simple question for Buzsaw
Exactly my point. Muhammad was not preaching worship of a pagan God

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Abshalom, posted 12-02-2003 2:41 PM Abshalom has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Abshalom, posted 12-03-2003 12:30 PM PaulK has replied

  
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