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Author Topic:   Sai Baba is similar to Jesus Christ - same delusion
Aurora
Junior Member (Idle past 2614 days)
Posts: 13
From: India
Joined: 12-09-2010


Message 1 of 29 (612196)
04-11-2011 3:43 PM


In India Sathya Sai Baba is in the News recently for his illness. Wanting to know more about him I googled and found many similarities between him and Jesus Christ. In both cases there are claims of immaculate conception and incarnation of God; both performed miracles like healing the sick, raising the dead, levitation, etc.; there are prophesies of their birth and they both predicted about the future. Jesus and Sai Baba teach about love and peace and both of them have millions of followers all over the world. Jesus Christ is said to be resurrected and I believe Sathya Sai Baba will also be seen by some devotees after his death.

These resemblances, to me, have reduced the uniqueness of Jesus.
Are they not the same kind of delusion about god?

Links:
http://www.saibaba.ws/miracles.htm
http://www.sathyasai.org/default.htm

Edited by Aurora, : No reason given.


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AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 2 of 29 (612198)
04-13-2011 6:59 PM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Sai Baba is similar to Jesus Christ - same delusion thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
  
jar
Member
Posts: 30920
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


(1)
Message 3 of 29 (612200)
04-13-2011 7:01 PM


And it's Sai Babas all the way down. Well, at least part way down.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 29 (612207)
04-13-2011 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Aurora
04-11-2011 3:43 PM


Compare/Contrast
These resemblances, to me, have reduced the uniqueness of Jesus.

One potential difference I've come up with:

quote:
Wikipedia on Sathya Sai Baba:

Sathya Sai Baba has explained the phenomenon of manifestation as being an act of divine creation, but refused to have his materializations investigated under experimental conditions.
...
Narasimhaiah wrote Sathya Sai Baba three letters that were widely publicized, in which he publicly challenged Baba to perform his miracles under controlled conditions. Sathya Sai Baba said that he ignored Narasimhaiah's challenge because he felt his approach was improper.


quote:
John 20:2628 (NRSV):

A week later his disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were shut, Jesus came and stood among them and said, 'Peace be with you.' Then he said to Thomas, 'Put your finger here and see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it in my side. Do not doubt but believe.' Thomas answered him, 'My Lord and my God!'


Jesus seemed much more open to being investigated than Sai Baba. In addition, we have video footage of Sai Baba, which we don't have of Jesusobviously(start watching at 6:35 to see the really good stuff):

Are they not the same kind of delusion about god?

They certainly seem similar; though, like I said, we aren't really able to investigate Jesus' miracles for authenticity like we can with some of Sai Baba's. Nevertheless, it's not worth putting too much stock in them as 'unique'; even in Jesus' day folk like him were a dime a dozenthere were lots of miracle-working sons of gods.

I'd say anyone who clings to these people simply because they believe them to be unique is seriously misguided. Such folk are pretty common through the ages.

Jon


Love your enemies!
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Replies to this message:
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rueh
Member (Idle past 1579 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


Message 5 of 29 (612222)
04-14-2011 8:10 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Jon
04-13-2011 8:10 PM


Re: Compare/Contrast
jon writes:

Jesus seemed much more open to being investigated than Sai Baba. In addition, we have video footage of Sai Baba, which we don't have of Jesusobviously(start watching at 6:35 to see the really good stuff):

Well, there does seem to be plenty of passages that would suggest that Jesus was just as unwilling to provide proof to skeptics as Sai Baba.

Matthew 12:38-39
Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.
39 He answered, A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.

Matthew 16:1-4
1 The Pharisees and Sadducees came to Jesus and tested him by asking him to show them a sign from heaven.
2 He replied, When evening comes, you say, It will be fair weather, for the sky is red, 3 and in the morning, Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast. You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times.[a] 4 A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah. Jesus then left them and went away

mark 8:11-12
The Pharisees came and began to argue with him, asking him for a sign from heaven, to test him. 12And he sighed deeply in his spirit and said, Why does this generation ask for a sign? Truly I tell you, no sign will be given to this generation.

Mark 6:1-6
1 Jesus left there and went to his hometown, accompanied by his disciples. 2 When the Sabbath came, he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed.
Where did this man get these things? they asked. Whats this wisdom that has been given him? What are these remarkable miracles he is performing? 3 Isnt this the carpenter? Isnt this Marys son and the brother of James, Joseph,[a] Judas and Simon? Arent his sisters here with us? And they took offense at him.

4 Jesus said to them, A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, among his relatives and in his own home. 5 He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6 He was amazed at their lack of faith.


'Qui non intelligit, aut taceat, aut discat'
The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it is open.-FZ
The industrial revolution, flipped a bitch on evolution.-NOFX
This message is a reply to:
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 29 (612255)
04-14-2011 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by rueh
04-14-2011 8:10 AM


Re: Compare/Contrast
I don't see anything in these passages that tells me Jesus was not open to having his miracles investigated. He occasionally refused to perform a miracle, but when he did, he generally performed them in public, and without any mentioned covering.

But, like I already said, folk such as Jesus weren't uncommon in his day.

Jon


Love your enemies!
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3456
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006


Message 7 of 29 (612315)
04-14-2011 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Aurora
04-11-2011 3:43 PM


Is It Raining Yet?
So what youre telling us is the Second Coming has already happened but instead of some white European with seven seals and seven trumpets He came as a brown Indian with Palamalu hair?

Someone screwed up their marketing analysis. The Boss is not going to be happy.

Get out the deep waders and the life jackets. We already know what happens when this guy gets pissed!


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frako
Member
Posts: 2792
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 8 of 29 (612318)
04-14-2011 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Aurora
04-11-2011 3:43 PM


well con artists are common troought human history, the only thing that changes is whats hot to be in a particular time. The medieval alchemist where making gold right infront of kings using various tricks to convince the king they can make gold and after that to convince him they rune out of the philosopher stone material and need to make some more witch takes years and it would be best if they live in the castle during that time .....

the modern ones that use magic issend me your money and il make your health problems go away, your money problems i have so many successes trust me just look at that old lady walking again ......

Around the time of Jesus and in his area the popular scam was i am the mesias the son of god, just ask those 12 people who i never met before how many miracles i have done. You woman who i never met before what ails you, " i am possessed watch me shake,/ i cant walk/ im blind ......" well watch me heal her crowd of unbelievers. this scam is still good today and tones fall for it.

Since im bashing Christ and this place seems to be appropriate for scams.

The Crucifixion thing the romans invented crucifixion for a purpose for others to see how much torment they will have to go trough if they brake the law and they designed crucifixion to be very painful and that it would take you a long time to die long as in days not hours. But Jesus "dies" in a few hours, given the fact that he had lots of followers who would gladly give him gifts i seriously doubt he was poor and how much do you think it would take to bribe 2 roman guards to take him of of the cross while he was still alive and no one was looking and then telling their boss well he was dead i checked with my spear.


This message is a reply to:
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 29 (612359)
04-14-2011 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by frako
04-14-2011 6:23 PM


Not Your Typical 'Con Artist'
I think it is a little disingenuous to refer to folk like Jesus and Sai Baba as 'con artists' without any qualifications, especially to compare them to run-of-the-mill televangelist 'healers'.

From what can be understood, it appears as though the instances of healings and miracles are 'genuine' in as much as the folk involved 'know' that something special has taken place. The sick people who get better seem to be real sick people who actually do get betterby what means we cannot necessarily be certain. Cars filled with water seem to actually run to the next townby what means we cannot necessarily be certain. And so on.

Are some of the 'miracles' simply tricks? Likely. Are the others some sort of coincidental luck? Certainly seems to be the best explanation. But by and large the miracles don't seem to involve any conspiracies of the type you've mentioned. Such operations really require more secrecy than can be sustained given the type and publicity of many of the miraclesthough, admittedly, this might explain why Sai Baba, for example, seems to reserve the more complex miracles for more private occasions while the public 'miracles' are less impressive.

Nevertheless, I think your take on the matter is too simplistic. There's more to these things than a magician with his stage hands out to make a buck. David Blaine isn't out telling folk to love their neighbor and give to the poor. The miracles are certainly meant to draw a crowd, but it doesn't seem to be just for the sake of the miracle-workers' fame; instead, the miracle-workers try to draw people in so they can spread their message to a bigger crowdthe attractive miracles serve a bigger purpose: bring people to the message and convince them of its veracity. Even Sai Baba admits, somewhat arrogantly, that his 'miracles' aren't to be regarded as the meaning of his message:

quote:
Wikipedia on Sathya Sai Baba:

Sathya Sai Baba says of "miracles", "those who profess to have understood me, the scholars, the yogis, the pundits, the jnanis, all of them are aware only of the least important, the casual external manifestation of an infinitesimal part of that power, namely, the "miracles"! This has been the case in all ages. People may be very near (physically) to the Avathar, but they live out their lives unaware of their fortune; they exaggerate the role of miracles, which are as trivial, when compared to my glory and majesty, as a mosquito is in size and strength to the elephant upon which it squats. Therefore, when you speak about these 'miracles,' I laugh within myself out of pity that you allow yourself so easily to lose the precious awareness of my reality."


Combine this with the fact that a lot of your information seems entirely pulled from your ass and the point you're trying to make all but vanishes. Miracle-workers like Jesus and Sai Baba aren't the type of 'con artists' you're making them out to be.

Jon

Edited by Jon, : grammar

Edited by Jon, : grammar... again


Love your enemies!
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frako
Member
Posts: 2792
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 10 of 29 (612400)
04-15-2011 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Jon
04-14-2011 11:21 PM


Re: Not Your Typical 'Con Artist'
A con artist is still a con artist no matter what their goals are.
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rueh
Member (Idle past 1579 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


Message 11 of 29 (612405)
04-15-2011 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Jon
04-14-2011 12:12 PM


Re: Compare/Contrast
Hello Jon,
To me I see similarities in Sai Baba's response to Narasimhaiah's request for investigation of supposed miracles and Jesus response to the Pharisees and Sadducees. Sai Baba believes that Narasimahaiah's requests were improper. Jesus thought that the Pharisees requests were wicked and adulterous. Both failed to allow skeptics to examine their claims of miracles and choose instead to perform to a willing and excepting crowd. A crowd that in both circumstances are searching for something or someone to believe in.

Edited by rueh, : No reason given.


'Qui non intelligit, aut taceat, aut discat'
The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it is open.-FZ
The industrial revolution, flipped a bitch on evolution.-NOFX
This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Jon, posted 04-14-2011 12:12 PM Jon has not yet responded

  
RCS
Member (Idle past 526 days)
Posts: 48
From: Delhi, Delhi, India
Joined: 07-04-2007


Message 12 of 29 (621155)
06-24-2011 7:24 AM


There is ONE difference though. Sai Baba did not say: Follow me else you will burn in hell.
  
Portillo
Member (Idle past 2079 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 13 of 29 (623758)
07-13-2011 6:05 AM


I would like to see the prophecies about Sai Baba. A vast number of prophecies were made about Jesus. All of the following prophecies were made at least 400 years before Jesus birth.

The Redeemer lives - Job 19:25-27
The Messiah would descend from Abraham - Genesis 12:3
The Messiah would descend from Isaac - Genesis 22:18, 26:4
The Messiah would descend from Jacob - Genesis 28:14
The Messiah would descend from Judah - Genesis 49:10-12
Raised up as a great prophet - Deuteronomy 18:15-19
Hung on a tree - Deuteronomy 21:23
The Holy one would not see decay - Psalm 16:1-10
Crucifixion - Psalm 22
False witnesses would accuse him - Psalm 27:12
"Into your hands I commit my spirit" - Psalm 31:3-5
Hated without cause - Psalm 35:19
His friends would stay far away - Psalm 38:11
Betrayed by a friend - Psalm 41:9
Scorned by enemies - Psalm 69:9,19
Descendant of Solomon - 2 Samuel 7:12-14
Speak in parables - Psalm 78:2
Jews would reject him - Psalm 118:22
Descendant of David - Psalm 132:11,12
Born of a virgin - Isaiah 7:14-16
Special miracles - Isaiah 35:4,6
Redeem Israel and be a light to the Gentiles - Isaiah 49:6
Obedient in time of humiliation - Isaiah 50
Suffering servant - Isaiah 53
Come from Bethlehem - Micah 5:1-4
Betrayed for 30 pieces of silver - Zechariah 11:12,13
Pierced - Zechariah 12:10

Edited by Portillo, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
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caffeine
Member
Posts: 1502
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 14 of 29 (623762)
07-13-2011 7:02 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Portillo
07-13-2011 6:05 AM


Of course, many of these are trivial (the messiah will be a great prophet!) or have no evidence of actually being true - the completely contradictory accounts of Jesus' birth in Luke and Matthew shows us that these aren't based in truth; they're post-hoc fictions to make the figure of Jesus fit messianic prophecies after the fact.

Some of what you've listed doesn't even seem to be prophecies. I was intrigued by the 'hung up on a tree', so I looked up the reference. Here's Deuteronomy 21:22-23

22And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:23His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

It's from Deuteronomy - a book of laws. It's instructions about the proper way to deal with executed criminals. How is this a prophecy of anything?

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


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Portillo
Member (Idle past 2079 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 15 of 29 (623863)
07-14-2011 4:01 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by caffeine
07-13-2011 7:02 AM


The gospels are different accounts of the same thing. If four people were asked to write down what happened and each had different perspectives, would the story they write look exactly the same?

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD

Edited by Portillo, : No reason given.

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


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