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Author Topic:   Is body hair a functionless vestige?
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 106 of 143 (612415)
04-15-2011 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by Robert Byers
04-15-2011 12:59 AM


I agree our hair gives no warmth. however it does attempt to keep us dry.
No, it doesn't. If anything, it keeps more water on the body than not having hair. For examples of hair that DOES keep water off the body you should check out dog breeds that have a dense undercoat, such as Labradors or Newfies. That hair actually does keep water off the body unlike ours.
I see it as a quick reaction in a post flood world.
You seem to see a lot of things for which there is no evidence.
I don't see hair as doing much unless for women it more keeps them from being too cooled in the climate.
Hair density in women is the same as in men for most cases. Alopecia is more common in human men, but it does occur in women as well. Also, more insulation is actually a hinderance in many climates that humans are otherwise well adapted to, such as the savannas of Africa. Like I said before, sweating is a much more useful thermoregulatory adaptation in humans than hair is, by a long ways.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Robert Byers, posted 04-15-2011 12:59 AM Robert Byers has replied

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 107 of 143 (612417)
04-15-2011 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Robert Byers
04-15-2011 12:56 AM


I've always understood they have more hair or hair holes relative to the size of their heads compared to men. Then also a stronger quality.
What you understand is meaningless if you have no evidence to back it up. There are a lot of things that a lot of people understand to be correct that are woefully wrong. Instead of just asserting how about trying to present some evidence.
nOt by evolution by mutation/selection but innate triggers to quickly adapt .
Evolution by another name?
ABE
Hair holes? hair holes? Are you freaking serious? You make all these supposed scientific claims and you don't know the name for "hair holes"?
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 108 of 143 (612429)
04-15-2011 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Robert Byers
04-15-2011 12:56 AM


Robert Byers writes:
NoNukes writes:
You have not even established that women have more hair on their heads than men.
I've always understood they have more hair or hair holes relative to the size of their heads compared to men. Then also a stronger quality.
You are just making that stuff up. And your explanation is completely backwards.
A smaller body with a smaller surface area would mean
1) Less energy need be generated internally required to attain a given temperature.
2) Less heat loss due to radiation or convection.
That means that big people, male or female, need greater protection against heat loss in a cold, wet climate than do smaller people.
Yes i insist marine mammals were just post flood creatures that took to the water. nOt by evolution by mutation/selection but innate triggers to quickly adapt .
Apparently those innate triggers produced inheritable changes. Someday it might be worthwhile to discuss the mechanism by that you understand will allow such things to happen.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by ringo, posted 04-15-2011 3:09 PM NoNukes has replied
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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 109 of 143 (612434)
04-15-2011 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by NoNukes
04-15-2011 2:43 PM


NoNukes writes:
That means that big people, male or female, need greater protection against heat loss in a cold, wet climate than do smaller people.
Because of the square-cube law, bigger people have a higher mass-to-surface-area ratio, which should translate to higher heat-producing capacity and lower heat-loss capacity, shouldn't it?
(I don't see it having much to do with hair though.)

If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 110 of 143 (612465)
04-15-2011 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by ringo
04-15-2011 3:09 PM


ringo writes:
Because of the square-cube law, bigger people have a higher mass-to-surface-area ratio, which should translate to higher heat-producing capacity and lower heat-loss capacity, shouldn't it?
A larger body would definitely lose more BTU/hr than a smaller one, but I hadn't considered an increase in heat generating capacity proportional to the mass. So for big, compact animals, a smaller fraction of the generated heat would be lost. A larger body would be better at maintaining temperature in the cold, but less able to get rid of heat in a too hot environment. I think you and Byers are right about that.
ringo writes:
I don't see it having much to do with hair though.
More hair might help in cold climates, but women don't actually seem to have more hair on their heads. Not sure why Byers is trying to explain something that does not seem to occur.

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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 111 of 143 (612469)
04-15-2011 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by NoNukes
04-15-2011 9:56 PM


A larger body would be better at maintaining temperature in the cold, but less able to get rid of heat in a too hot environment. I think you and Byers are right about that.
That doesn't seem to fit with the evidence though: human groups from hotter climates tend to be larger and lankier while groups from colder climates tend to be shorter and stockier.
Or is this a false impression I'm getting?
Jon

Love your enemies!

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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 112 of 143 (612471)
04-15-2011 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Jon
04-15-2011 10:52 PM


Jon writes:
human groups from hotter climates tend to be larger and lankier while groups from colder climates tend to be shorter and stockier.
A long, thin shape would have proportionately more surface area than a short, thick one of the same mass.
Consider a sheet of plywood 48 by 96 inches and 1/2 inch thick. That's 9360 square inches of surface area, according to my calculations. Now cut it into 12 inch squares - 32 squares to make a stack 16 inches high. That's 1056 square inches surface area. The short fat stack will stay much warmer than the thin sheet.

If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

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 Message 111 by Jon, posted 04-15-2011 10:52 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Jon, posted 04-16-2011 9:00 PM ringo has replied
 Message 117 by OliverChant, posted 04-17-2011 2:29 PM ringo has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 113 of 143 (612548)
04-16-2011 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by ringo
04-15-2011 11:29 PM


A long, thin shape would have proportionately more surface area than a short, thick one of the same mass.
Consider a sheet of plywood 48 by 96 inches and 1/2 inch thick. That's 9360 square inches of surface area, according to my calculations. Now cut it into 12 inch squares - 32 squares to make a stack 16 inches high. That's 1056 square inches surface area. The short fat stack will stay much warmer than the thin sheet.
That's kind of the point I was trying to make. Unless females are the exact same proportion as larger males, wouldn't their smaller bodies already keep them warmer?
I can't see why women would need more 'hair holes' than men.
Jon

Love your enemies!

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Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by ringo, posted 04-16-2011 11:02 PM Jon has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 114 of 143 (612552)
04-16-2011 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Jon
04-16-2011 9:00 PM


Jon writes:
I can't see why women would need more 'hair holes' than men.
I agree that the hair-holes argument doesn't make any sense. It's pretty funny though.

If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 115 of 143 (612554)
04-17-2011 12:09 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by ringo
04-16-2011 11:02 PM


Another fundy boo-boo
ringo writes:
Jon writes:
I can't see why women would need more 'hair holes' than men.
I agree that the hair-holes argument doesn't make any sense. It's pretty funny though.
This is the problem we have.
Fundies are convinced that they have the answers to various questions so they don't need evidence, logical conclusions from that evidence, or the scientific method.
Simple bone-head mistakes are the first clue. Folks who know their subject tend not to make too many of those mistakes. Other folks, who have little to no scientific training, and who may be getting their "science" from fundie websites, do not fare so well.
That brings up the question: Why should scientists pay any attention to folks who know little to nothing about a scientific subject?
Does zeal bring scientific knowledge? Sorry, no.
Does religious apologetics bring scientific knowledge? Sorry, no.
Does religious revelation bring scientific knowledge? Sorry, no.
Does religious belief bring scientific knowledge? Sorry, no.
If you have not studied a particular field of science to at least an advanced level, you have no business opining on that subject. Sad to say, religious apologists are the main offenders in this regard. Perhaps they should just "put a cork in it."
(See also tagline.)

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

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OliverChant
Junior Member (Idle past 4728 days)
Posts: 28
Joined: 04-17-2011


Message 116 of 143 (612602)
04-17-2011 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Coyote
04-17-2011 12:09 AM


Sorry but hair has function
First of all if your girlfriend had no hair you wouldnt find her attractive
Secondly your pubic hair regulates temperatures for your genitals.
Thirdly the reason why we as humans find people with hair attractive is because it shows a sign of health so there you go...

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Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Jon, posted 04-17-2011 2:47 PM OliverChant has replied
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OliverChant
Junior Member (Idle past 4728 days)
Posts: 28
Joined: 04-17-2011


Message 117 of 143 (612603)
04-17-2011 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by ringo
04-15-2011 11:29 PM


YOUR WRONG
Haha I'm South African and we "white "people are generally larger than the "bbalck people yet we originate from colder climates????

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by ringo, posted 04-15-2011 11:29 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 123 by ringo, posted 04-17-2011 2:58 PM OliverChant has replied

  
OliverChant
Junior Member (Idle past 4728 days)
Posts: 28
Joined: 04-17-2011


Message 118 of 143 (612604)
04-17-2011 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by OliverChant
04-17-2011 2:29 PM


Re: YOUR WRONG
"black"sorry

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by OliverChant, posted 04-17-2011 2:29 PM OliverChant has not replied

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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 119 of 143 (612607)
04-17-2011 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by OliverChant
04-17-2011 2:31 PM


Please Use the Edit Button
There is an 'Edit' button at the bottom of every post you make, right next to the 'Reply' button. You can use that button to fix any typos or grammatical mistakes you notice after submitting your post; you do not need to make a new post to indicate a correction.
This is a forum, not an chat room. Let's try to keep it that way for everyone's sake.
Thanks

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
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OliverChant
Junior Member (Idle past 4728 days)
Posts: 28
Joined: 04-17-2011


Message 120 of 143 (612609)
04-17-2011 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Jon
04-17-2011 2:41 PM


Re: Please Use the Edit Button
sorry

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