GDR writes:
I think that faith is crucial. The question is faith in what and for what reason. If we are talking about where we spend eternity then it is a matter of having faith in the Christ’s message of love, forgiveness, mercy, kindness, justice etc. I don’t see anywhere in the scriptures that those attributes will only be found amongst those that call themselves Christian.
I agree... kinda.
I think that if we are going to follow the Message of Love (love, forgiveness, mercy, kindness, justice etc...), than we are forced to "have faith."
I don't think there's an objective, absolute way to show that these things are "better" than evil things. In this sense, I think we must have faith that these things are "good" and live our lives in that fashion.
...there is the slightly reality-based fact that if we go about being evil, we're likely to be punished or even killed by our community. This would be a non-faith reason (self-preservation) to carry the Message of Love (or, at least act in that manner), but I think the faith-based reason to carry the message is a much more honorable reason than one based upon selfish reasoning.
Of course, the faith I'm talking about here is not religious or Jesus Christ related in anyway, it's using the simpler definition along the lines of "believing in something for which there is no evidence."
Having said that I also believe that Christian faith is crucial. I believe that when an individual comes to believe in Jesus Christ and all that goes with that, then something changes. First off, when I say believe, I am not talking about just intellectual assent, but more importantly belief meaning that we trust in what Jesus taught and in what Jesus did for us on the cross. I contend that when someone makes that decision with both mind, and more importantly heart, that there is a change in that person’s life that is assisted by the Holy Spirit of God.
I understand. I don't really have an arguement against this, just an alternative view:
My view is that the "faith" is crucial. Back to what I was talking about above, it's the belief in doing good things for the sake of simply being good that's crucial, rather than doing good things for selfish reasons. This difference may not show in our actions, but it is a mindset that is extremely different from one based on self-preservation.
You contend that when Christian Faith is accepted, there is a change in a person's life that is assisted by the Holy Spirit of God.
I contend that when Love Faith is accepted (non-religious, as I have proposed above), there is a change in a person's life that is perpetuated by this unselfish mindset.
In both situations, I would say that the person would be following the Message of Love.
I would also say that the unselfish mindset I am talking about is what you're calling the Holy Spirit of God.
But, this is getting into personal preference and away from what Rob Bell is discussing.
As far as our thoughts about Rob Bell go... I too agree that he's on the right path, but I think he has a longer distance to go as I do not see any importance in the Christian portion of Christian Faith (or, say, the Muslim portion of Muslim Faith). I think it's the Faith part that is important, and simple... just faith that good is good and that we should strive to increase good in our lives and those around us.
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