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Author | Topic: Politcal Compass | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Modulous writes: You mean the last ten thousand years? Again - you'll find shared values about the preciousness of new life with the other camp! The difference is about when 'you' acquired 'life' and 'soul'. Again, applying the Golden Rule, I give the other life the benefit of the doubt, rather than gamble their temporal and/or eternal values on my own behalf. Obviously, had my mom aborted me, not only would I have suffered the pain of execution, but the loss of all of the blessings of life. My understanding is the the consensus is that the babe in the womb has some awareness of life. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
Again, applying the Golden Rule, I give the other life the benefit of the doubt, rather than gamble their temporal and/or eternal values on my own behalf. And again, the other side doesn't think the principle of benefit of the doubt is flawed. The difference is when to start doubting (and in the case of conflicts, in which direction), not whether the benefit of the doubt should be given to life.
Obviously, had my mom aborted me, not only would I have suffered the pain of execution, but the loss of all of the blessings of life. Not if she had aborted you before you had developed a neural system sufficient to feel pain - but I was just trying to remind you that the Golden Rule can be applied by two people and still come to different moral conclusions. You can share fundamental moral agreements with someone, but still disagree enough to be in different 'camps' on fairly big social issues.
My understanding is the the consensus is that the babe in the womb has some awareness of life. The most contentious part of the abortion debate is discussion about blastocysts of 70cells which are not biologically aware. That they have a soul that is aware is not really at concensus status on both sides of this argument. But once again - I was trying to show how the disagreements are not a case of a failure of those you disagree with to apply fundamental moral principles such as the Golden Rule and that the Golden Rule is where you are actually likely to find the most agreement with those on the other side. Don't use the Golden Rule to divide yourself from those that disagree with you - use it to find common ground!
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subbie Member (Idle past 1255 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
Regarding Abortion, I go with the Golden Rule of doing to others as I would have them do to me. What a coincidence, so do I. And if I had a parasite living in my body that might kill me, I wouldn't want anyone else telling me what I had to do with it. Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
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petrophysics1 Inactive Member |
Artemis Entreri writes: Your political compassEconomic Left/Right: 6.12 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.46 I take this almost every year jus to see where i am going. It is almost where I thought it was, i used to be in the blue. I was hoping for more purple this year, but oh well. thanks for the reminder, I was affraid everyone here would be affraid to show thier results and go into some predictable diatribe about sampling error and the flaws of the test, but it seems i was wrong about that as well, and some played along. So this is mine:
Nice to see someone in the same area. Edited by petrophysics1, : OK, I don't know how to fix this.I get a [x] instead of the actual graph and I can't look at the graph. My economic l/r score is 7.88, and my social/libertarian etc score is 0.10
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
[im*]http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?e...[/im*]
Replace im* with img and it should work Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Regarding Abortion, I go with the Golden Rule of doing to others as I would have them do to me. One one end, yeah, I wouldn't want someone forcing me to go through with a pregnancy I didn't want to either But I get what your sayin'. And I do think abortion is immoral. Still, I don't think that is sufficient basis for criminalizing abortion. I think it should be legal, and that doesn't force me to view it as moral.
We all began as babes in the womb. We also all began as a part of our mother's body. All in all, the life of the baby is a matter of the mother's choice, period. Legislation would be on that choice. I don't find a compelling reason to criminalize abortion, so I don't think it should be illegal. Too, if she's desperate enough, she could just go engage in some heavily drunken sidewalk bellyflops, or whatever. For that, I do think there's the benefit of having it be a medical procedure that comes with the legality. So there I have it, no reason for it to be illegal and reason for it to be legal.
In the days of the Golden Rule, thankfully, the ones responsible for bringing me to be, regarded my life and soul as precious as their own. Lucky you, but I can imagine scenarios where it'd be better if someone did not go through with their pregnancy.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Catholic Scientist writes: One one end, yeah, I wouldn't want someone forcing me to go through with a pregnancy I didn't want to either In most cases nobody is force into having sex. The impetus of the creation of a new live person d into pregnancy lies with the parents of the baby. Abortion is all about people refusing to be accountable for their own actions. Abortion is the execution of a real life person. The passing of a person from inside the womb to outside of the womb is irrelevant to the existence of the person. We've all been there and done that.
Catholic Scientist writes: But I get what your sayin'. And I do think abortion is immoral. Still, I don't think that is sufficient basis for criminalizing abortion. I think it should be legal, and that doesn't force me to view it as moral. Murder is murder; is murder, in God's eyes. Why should a few inches of body mass, designating the location of the person being murdered, negate the parent of the child being held responsible for murderous and painful execution of that other person within the walls of one's body, having no means of self defense? That's why, in America, it has traditionally been illegal. If the babe were able to cry out, it might argue in self defense, "Hey, I had no choice or legal counsel in the sentence of death pronounced upon me! WILL SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME!!", as the painful instruments of execution begin to cut into the hapless, helpless and horrified baby child. " ABE: Perhaps the fact that you consider abortion to be immoral has something to say about core values which may be relevant to our similar test results. Edited by Buzsaw, : As noted BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 734 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
Murder is murder; is murder, in God's eyes. Why should a few inches of body mass, designating the location of the person being murdered, negate the parent of the child being held responsible for murderous and painful execution of that other person within the walls of one's body, having no means of self defense? Really?
If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. - Exodus 21:22 God appears to disagree with Buzsaw on this one.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
There was a reason that the Hebrews waited until the eighth day to name and circumcise a baby. It was not recognized as a human or member of the tribe until then.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
This isn't an abortion thread. If you want to argue about abortion, and I will, then reply to this in an appropriate existing thread.
I'll supply some meat to get started on: My position is that abortion should be legal regardless of me considering it immoral. I assume you're disagreeing with me on the legality.
The passing of a person from inside the womb to outside of the womb is irrelevant to the existence of the person. "Personhood" is an important determiniation to make for this topic. We'll need to get that figured out.
Murder is murder; is murder, in God's eyes. What is in God's eyes is irrelevant to the determination of the legality.
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subbie Member (Idle past 1255 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
In most cases nobody is force into having sex..... I see. So once a woman has sex her status, by virtue of that act, regardless of anything else, is reduced to below a clump of indistinguishable cells. And don't give me any of this baby crap. You'd prohibit any termination at any stage of pregnancy, even of a blastocyst that is less than 0.2 mm in diameter.
And I agree with Catholic Scientist, I'd be delighted to take this to another thread. Edited by subbie, : Tyop Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4229 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
I was begining to think I was alone here.
----------------------------------------------------------- I'd be down for an abortion thread as well. Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Artemis Entreri writes: I was begining to think I was alone here. ----------------------------------------------------------- I'd be down for an abortion thread as well. I've bumped Abortion questions...? forward. Go for it by responding to one or more of my points above or to those of others. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4145 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined: |
Here I am, though I don't really care to be labeled as anything as my views are subject to change as I become dumber/smarter.
The Political Compass Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given. "I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson Ad astra per aspera
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caffeine Member (Idle past 1024 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
Seems my old student-protest-days freinds are right - I have shifted rightwards. I'm sure when I did this years ago it put me right down in the bottom left corner.
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