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Author Topic:   Osama Bin Laden Gets What He Gives
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1417
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 6.5


Message 66 of 98 (614621)
05-05-2011 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by DevilsAdvocate
05-04-2011 11:53 AM


Re: Regarding Rhetoric, Emotions, Irony and Healing
DevilsAdvocate writes:
What actions do you think we should have done since you are evidently smarter than all the US military leaders combined in the last decade.
The mujahideen were significantly financed, armed and trained by the United States which spawned Bin Laden, whom caused 9/11. Look up "blowback" sometime.
I'm no rocket scientist, but I think it would have been smart NOT to support a fanatical and violent group of people to begin with. Kinda makes "military intelligence" an oxymoron, yes?
For Americans to cheer the death of someone that America enthusiastically helped to create is pretty ignorant.
Blowback (intelligence) - Wikipedia

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 05-04-2011 11:53 AM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Tram law, posted 05-05-2011 2:19 PM dronestar has replied
 Message 70 by sfs, posted 05-05-2011 4:07 PM dronestar has not replied
 Message 71 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 05-05-2011 5:02 PM dronestar has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1417
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 6.5


Message 69 of 98 (614649)
05-05-2011 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Tram law
05-05-2011 2:19 PM


Re: Regarding Rhetoric, Emotions, Irony and Healing
Hey Tram Law,
Tram writes:
So because one government helped Bin laden that means all 310 million Americans are responsible for him? Forever and ever?
ONE government? You mean both DEMOCRAT and REPUBLICAN governmentS?
quote:
The mujahideen were significantly financed, armed and trained by the United States [Central Intelligence Agency] (CIA) during the administrations of Carter[11] and Reagan, . . .
Mujahideen - Wikipedia
Tram writes:
That kind of generalized statement shows that many people overseas don't understand how the American voting system works. And probably don't care because they want to be holier than thou.
Umm, . . . I'm an american. One can be against war crimes AND be an american. Really.
Tram writes:
Secondly, the celebrations are different than the Muslims. The Muslims are celebrating the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians because they are incapable of discerning civilians from military.
I am unsure if Muslims celebrating the deaths of thousands of innocent american deaths is MUCH worse than americans NOT CARING about the deaths of MILLIONS of innocent Iraqis and Afghans civilians.
Tram writes:
More importantly, it is a celebration of life, because with his death Al Qaeda has been hurt. While it remains to be seen how bad, it does indeed mean that more innocent people will now get to live.
So you think that the death/destruction policy that Israel uses towards Palestine has generally led to a peaceful resolution?
An eye for an eye will only make the whole world blind Mahatma Gandhi
You might want to RE-read:Blowback (intelligence) - Wikipedia

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Tram law, posted 05-05-2011 2:19 PM Tram law has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Tram law, posted 05-05-2011 7:35 PM dronestar has not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1417
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 6.5


Message 79 of 98 (614723)
05-06-2011 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by DevilsAdvocate
05-05-2011 5:02 PM


Re: Regarding Rhetoric, Emotions, Irony and Healing
DA writes:
It is easy to be critical of our decisions when looking through the rear view window.
And it is also very easy to be critical when the decisions are incredibly dumb, immoral, and criminal.
DA writes:
We did not create Bin Laden anymore than we created Saddam Husein (who we also supported in Iraq's war against Iran).
Well, that's lovely. Apparently it's ok to you that america only SUPPORT the terrorist's atrocities as long as we don't CREATE them.
However, you might want to look deeper into history. The CIA assisted. The CIA funded the Ba'ath Party - of which Saddam Hussein was a member. And when Hussein gassed the Kurds, after the world condemned him, the USA turned around and REWARDED the atrocity by giving him another billion dollars worth of military aid.
Take a real long look at this enthusiastic, smiling photo showing two people shaking hands. It SHOULD disgust most intelligent and moral people:
Shaking Hands with Saddam Hussein
DA writes:
These people are adult human beings who made decisions to turn their anger and wrath against America even before we went into Iraq and Afghanistan.
Umm, I guess I already forgot,... when exactly did Iraqis turn their anger against the USA? Was it during the 1990s when the USA led crippling sanctions against the Iraqis that murdered half a million of their children? When Madeline Albright said it was worth killing half a million children to bring about political change? You might want to research the term "terrorists" some time and see if it applies to the US.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 05-05-2011 5:02 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Tram law, posted 05-06-2011 9:42 AM dronestar has not replied
 Message 85 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 05-07-2011 12:31 AM dronestar has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1417
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 6.5


Message 82 of 98 (614738)
05-06-2011 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by jar
05-05-2011 7:25 PM


Re: Regarding Rhetoric, Emotions, Irony and Healing
Hey Jar,
Generally, I liked your points but the following struck me as a curious statement:
Jar writes:
How does it look to the folk living in the Middle East that are as ignorant of much of the facts, history and geopolitics as the average American?
First of all, the average american is pretty ignorant. Most will willfully vote AGAINST their self interests. And half of them don't even vote. Secondly, when I visited Egypt I was amazed at how knowledgeable the average Egyptian was. Even the teens and children were asking me questions regarding American politics. Pretty impressive. And it seems the average Middle Eastern is quite aware of American interference in the area and its criminal support of Israel over human rights. Generally speaking, I would say people at the wrong end of the gun are often more aware than the gun-holder regarding the true nature of things.
Just my 2 cents.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by jar, posted 05-05-2011 7:25 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by jar, posted 05-06-2011 10:45 AM dronestar has not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1417
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 6.5


Message 92 of 98 (615114)
05-10-2011 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by DevilsAdvocate
05-07-2011 12:31 AM


Re: Regarding Rhetoric, Emotions, Irony and Healing
DA writes:
Maybe the following will help shed light on the inaccurate claims in laying the blame on America when it really was the result of the Iraqi government itself (Saddam Hussein) who was guilty of deliberately mismanaging tens of billions of dollars in humanitarian aid as shown below:
Ohmygosh, your right. There's absolutely no way American presidents or "military intelligence" could possibly have known that Saddam Hussein was really a bad guy, and would do something naughty like that. Afterall, Saddam Hussein looks so trustworthy in this picture:
Shaking Hands with Saddam Hussein
Drone writes:
When Madeline Albright said it was worth killing half a million children to bring about political change?
DA writes:
She made a statement she later regretted making. I agree though it was poorly worded and sounded inhumane in context to the question.
Well, we COULD debate the actual number of children horrifically murdered if it would allow you to sleep at night. However, I agree with your quote above. I can very well imagine that after Madeline Albright thoughtfully considered the question and then gave an HONEST and TRUTHFUL answer, she LATER regretted it.
Drone writes:
Do we have a policy of deliberately murdering innocent people and children. Of course not. We are not the evil people you make us out to be. You do not even acknowledge the billions of dollars in aid and military support we provide to people around the world on a daily basis (i.e. our military provided humanitarian aid to Japan and Haiti in the latest news).
The recipients of USA's LARGEST foreign aid packages are those nations with the worst human rights violations: Israel, Egypt, Turkey, Columbia, . . . in short, this evidence DOES support that America has a policy of deliberately murdering innocent people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 05-07-2011 12:31 AM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 05-11-2011 8:02 AM dronestar has not replied

  
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