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Author Topic:   The Giant Pool Of Money. Implications
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 121 of 423 (615926)
05-18-2011 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by Buzsaw
05-18-2011 11:10 AM


Re: Good Inflation......? Bad Inflation.....?
I'm all eyes and ears. Tell me about hyperinflation and busting of the $$ in the 19th and 20th century in America. I've lived 2/3 of the 20th century and it never happened until the $$ couldn't be cashed for silver. In 1900 you could buy a solid oak dining set for around $30 and eggs for a nickel or so a dozen.
Did you see the graph in message #99? It was quite obvious that hyperinflation was much more common while the dollar was on a precious metals standard than when it was pulled off that standard.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Buzsaw, posted 05-18-2011 11:10 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Buzsaw, posted 05-18-2011 12:34 PM Taq has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 122 of 423 (615928)
05-18-2011 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by Buzsaw
05-18-2011 11:10 AM


Re: Good Inflation......? Bad Inflation.....?
In 1900 you could buy a solid oak dining set for around $30 and eggs for a nickel or so a dozen.
I'm not sure what you think this means. In 1900 you were likely earning money counted in cents per hour - a solid oak dining set could be two weeks of wages. Solid oak dining sets are cheaper these days in comparison to wages than then. Presumably because the cost of making them has dropped considerably.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Buzsaw, posted 05-18-2011 11:10 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Buzsaw, posted 05-18-2011 12:41 PM Modulous has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 123 of 423 (615933)
05-18-2011 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Taq
05-18-2011 11:32 AM


Re: Good Inflation......? Bad Inflation.....?
Taq writes:
I'm all eyes and ears. Tell me about hyperinflation and busting of the $$ in the 19th and 20th century in America. I've lived 2/3 of the 20th century and it never happened until the $$ couldn't be cashed for silver. In 1900 you could buy a solid oak dining set for around $30 and eggs for a nickel or so a dozen.
Did you see the graph in message #99? It was quite obvious that hyperinflation was much more common while the dollar was on a precious metals standard than when it was pulled off that standard.
Yes, I saw the graph. Did you notice that after fluctuating the $$ stabalized again rather than inflate into oblivion as the course we are on today? That's because you could buy goods with it. Of course we can now buy goods with the $$, but less and less goods as it speeds on it's course into oblivion as the socialist despotic regime plans so as to rule us.
Wake up, sheeple, before it's too late. According to the prophecies, the longer and sounder intelligent mainstream folks like you sleep the sooner it will happen.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Taq, posted 05-18-2011 11:32 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Taq, posted 05-18-2011 12:49 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 124 of 423 (615934)
05-18-2011 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Buzsaw
05-18-2011 11:10 AM


Re: Good Inflation......? Bad Inflation.....?
Hi Buzz,
I'm all eyes and ears. Tell me about hyperinflation and busting of the $$ in the 19th and 20th century in America. I've lived 2/3 of the 20th century and it never happened until the $$ couldn't be cashed for silver.
What do you suggest?
Are you aware that all the gold and silver in the world is worth less than our national budget.
see here
How could we or any other country use gold or especially silver as standard? There simply isn't enough to cover all the money in circulation.
Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Buzsaw, posted 05-18-2011 11:10 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Buzsaw, posted 05-18-2011 12:54 PM fearandloathing has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 125 of 423 (615935)
05-18-2011 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Modulous
05-18-2011 11:57 AM


Re: Good Inflation......? Bad Inflation.....?
Modulous writes:
In 1900 you could buy a solid oak dining set for around $30 and eggs for a nickel or so a dozen.
I'm not sure what you think this means. In 1900 you were likely earning money counted in cents per hour - a solid oak dining set could be two weeks of wages. Solid oak dining sets are cheaper these days in comparison to wages than then. Presumably because the cost of making them has dropped considerably.
I know what it means. It means that the $$ was very sound, able to purchase many goods. It was a low period in terms of inflation, but a wonderful high time in the industrial revolution, prosperity and progress, beautiful victorian homes fancy oak furnishings emerging oil and energy production & rural estates, and the emerging of automobiles, advancement of electrical and media technology and air travel, etc. INCOME WAS NOT TAXED!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Modulous, posted 05-18-2011 11:57 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Theodoric, posted 05-18-2011 1:33 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 141 by Modulous, posted 05-19-2011 2:47 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 144 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-19-2011 6:49 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 126 of 423 (615937)
05-18-2011 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by Buzsaw
05-18-2011 12:34 PM


Re: Good Inflation......? Bad Inflation.....?
Yes, I saw the graph. Did you notice that after fluctuating the $$ stabalized again rather than inflate into oblivion as the course we are on today?
It fluctuates through the entire graph. The difference is that the fluctuations are less severe after the dollar was removed from the precious metal standard. Hyperinflation was much worse when the dollar was on a precious metal standard. That is what the graph shows.
Also, there are several spikes on that graph that are many times worse than current inflation rates, and these spikes occurred when we were on a precious metal standard. The most stable inflationary periods are seen during periods when we were off of the precious metal standard, the exact opposite of what you are claiming.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Buzsaw, posted 05-18-2011 12:34 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by Buzsaw, posted 05-18-2011 12:56 PM Taq has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 127 of 423 (615938)
05-18-2011 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by fearandloathing
05-18-2011 12:35 PM


Re: Good Inflation......? Bad Inflation.....?
fearandloathing writes:
Hi Buzz,
I'm all eyes and ears. Tell me about hyperinflation and busting of the $$ in the 19th and 20th century in America. I've lived 2/3 of the 20th century and it never happened until the $$ couldn't be cashed for silver.
What do you suggest?
Are you aware that all the gold and silver in the world is worth less than our national budget.
see here
How could we or any other country use gold or especially silver as standard? There simply isn't enough to cover all the money in circulation.
The emergence into globalism makes the gold standard unfeasible. The best we can do is banish the Federal Reserve, give the coining of currency back to Congress where it is Constitutionally suppose to be, stop occupying pagan lands, support Israel for Jehovah's blessings, eliminate the income tax and reign in government size and regulative powers etc. Senator and possible presidential candidate Ron Paul's ideas are a good start.
Obama should be impeached or removed from power, the sooner the better, along with his ultra liberal socialist Islam catered thugocracy. Right to work laws and enforcement of our borders are a priority.
There's a lot to be restored back to the good ole days of the Victorian Era, in principle (I say, in principle).

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by fearandloathing, posted 05-18-2011 12:35 PM fearandloathing has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Taq, posted 05-18-2011 1:28 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 133 by jar, posted 05-18-2011 1:38 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 135 by Theodoric, posted 05-18-2011 1:43 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 139 by Theodoric, posted 05-18-2011 3:59 PM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 128 of 423 (615939)
05-18-2011 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Taq
05-18-2011 12:49 PM


Re: Good Inflation......? Bad Inflation.....?
Taq writes:
Yes, I saw the graph. Did you notice that after fluctuating the $$ stabalized again rather than inflate into oblivion as the course we are on today?
It fluctuates through the entire graph. The difference is that the fluctuations are less severe after the dollar was removed from the precious metal standard. Hyperinflation was much worse when the dollar was on a precious metal standard. That is what the graph shows.
Also, there are several spikes on that graph that are many times worse than current inflation rates, and these spikes occurred when we were on a precious metal standard. The most stable inflationary periods are seen during periods when we were off of the precious metal standard, the exact opposite of what you are claiming.
Taq, You're ignoring my point, that the $$ was never in danger as it is today.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Taq, posted 05-18-2011 12:49 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Taq, posted 05-18-2011 3:16 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 129 of 423 (615941)
05-18-2011 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Buzsaw
05-18-2011 12:54 PM


Re: Good Inflation......? Bad Inflation.....?
The best we can do is banish the Federal Reserve, give the coining of currency back to Congress where it is Constitutionally suppose to be, . . .
The power is with Congress. They oversee the Federal Reserve and approve appointments. The whole point of having the Federal Reserve is to create a buffer between politics and policy. Those that run the Federal Reserve are focused on improving the economy instead of getting re-elected. If interest rates become a political football instead of sound policy then the economy can only worsen.
eliminate the income tax and reign in government size and regulative powers etc.
Before income taxes the government raised money through tariffs. This greatly increased the price of imported goods. If you think income tax is bad, just wait until those cheap imported goods are no longer cheap. This will shift the tax burden more heavily towards those with the lowest incomes, to those who are least able to pay taxes. On top of that, trying to produce these cheap goods in the US will only lead to reduction of wages making the problem even worse. Taxes have to come from somewhere. It seems to me that the best system is to tax people based on their ability to pay tax. That is what an income tax is.
As to the size of government, it is not the size that is the problem. It is the effectiveness of government that needs to be fixed. If your tax dollars provide something of value then that is a tax dollar well spent. It doesn't matter how large the government is if those tax dollars produce valuable resources. For example, let's say that 30% of income goes to taxes and 10% of your income goes towards paying for health care. If the government created an effective health care program that required your taxes to go from 30% to 35% you would actually have more money in your pocket.
Your last suggestion is perhaps the worst one of all. You really need to study your history on this one. Some of the worst labor and environmental conditions existed prior to government regulation. If you want to return to the days where people were paid in chits that had to be spent at the company store then forgive me for not sharing your vision of the future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Buzsaw, posted 05-18-2011 12:54 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 130 of 423 (615942)
05-18-2011 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Buzsaw
05-18-2011 12:41 PM


Re: Good Inflation......? Bad Inflation.....?
INCOME WAS NOT TAXED
Not in 1900 but there were income taxes in the US prior to this period.
How do you think government was financed prior to implementation of the federal income tax? Government always needs to be paid for.
At the founding government was paid for with excise taxes. Excise taxes are incredibly regressive(you might want to look that concept up). They are also prone to fraud, corruption and the wealthy finding ways around them. Just not a good way to fund government.
Then the US switched to being financed by tariffs on imports. High tariffs were good for some Americans and bad for others. It also made global trading difficult. It is hard to expect a country to accept your goods if you are going to slap a tariff on theirs. This also is not a good way to finance a government.
First income tax was during the civil war.
So how do we fund government if there is no income tax? Not just federal, but state and local also. Should property taxes go up? National Sales tax? Tell me how do we fund governemnt?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Buzsaw, posted 05-18-2011 12:41 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 131 of 423 (615943)
05-18-2011 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Buzsaw
05-18-2011 12:33 AM


Re: Good Inflation......? Bad Inflation.....?
If gold or silver were backing the currency no politiiton could purposely inflate the system for political epediency. Precious things like gold and silver can't be eaten, but they, for sure, do not inflate.
They inflate every time someone opens a gold or silver mine, Buz. Indeed the historical record presented to you indicates that there's more inflation on gold or silver money than on fiat currency.
The worst inflation England ever had was around 1600, when France started smuggling silver into the country. At first glance, that sounds insane! It's like sneaking 50 dollar bills into your enemy's pocket. But it rapidly debased the pound sterling (sterling silver) to such an extent that the Crown hired Issac Newton, the smartest man in England at the time, to deal with it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Buzsaw, posted 05-18-2011 12:33 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Theodoric, posted 05-18-2011 1:41 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 132 of 423 (615944)
05-18-2011 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Buzsaw
05-18-2011 11:10 AM


Still waiting
Theodoric writes:
I notice you completely ignored the meat of my post.
Theodoric asks writes:
What are the implications of the value of the US Currency if it were currently backed by gold? How would the current speculative run up in the price of gold effect the dollars value and the effect on the world wide economy?
Answer?
Do you think the following things are equal?
Total # of dollars in circulation.
Price of goods and service.
The more dollars there are the higher prices will be?
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Buzsaw, posted 05-18-2011 11:10 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 133 of 423 (615945)
05-18-2011 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Buzsaw
05-18-2011 12:54 PM


Re: Good Inflation......? Bad Inflation.....?
The best we can do is tell Israel they have two years to get out of all occupied territories and recognize Palestine or they are on their own, vote every politician that claims to be a Christian out of office unless they are homosexual and/or pledge to support same sex marriage rights, establish a National Curriculum and base accreditation of all schools, public, private and home school on the National Curriculum as a minimum standard, remove the income cap on Social Security taxes, increase Inheritance taxes in a progressive scale, increase the top income tax rates in a progressive scale, treat corporate earnings the same as individual income.
And if that pisses off the little picayune God Buz markets, tell it to shove it.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Buzsaw, posted 05-18-2011 12:54 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 134 of 423 (615946)
05-18-2011 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by crashfrog
05-18-2011 1:33 PM


Re: Good Inflation......? Bad Inflation.....?
The fall of the Spanish Empire can be partially attributed to influx of gold and silver from the new world. The huge inflow of gold and silver destroyed the Spanish economy.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by crashfrog, posted 05-18-2011 1:33 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by Taq, posted 05-18-2011 4:11 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 135 of 423 (615947)
05-18-2011 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Buzsaw
05-18-2011 12:54 PM


Oh really?? Really?
There's a lot to be restored back to the good ole days of the Victorian Era, in principle (I say, in principle).
Care to flesh out this argument a little? I certainly would like to go toe to toe with you and your revisionist psuedohistory you seem to favor.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Buzsaw, posted 05-18-2011 12:54 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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