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Author Topic:   Was Christ a communist?
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 118 of 128 (618625)
06-04-2011 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Phat
06-04-2011 5:20 AM


Re: Redistribution Of Wealth
That being said, I dont think that I should have to pay higher taxes and give more to the poor if I myself feel myself becoming poor also. Jesus and I should have a little talk...I feel that I am not a worthy Christian.
It all depends on whether you have faith in God. The real test of faith is not how much you profess belief, vain professions of faith are worthless. If you had faith that Christ was/is God you would not care about your personal wealth since you would have faith God would make sure you were sufficiently provided for. As a Biblical reference see Matthew 6.
I wouldn't worry about it too much though, many people profess to have a deep faith in God who actually don't trust him at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Phat, posted 06-04-2011 5:20 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Jon, posted 06-04-2011 12:57 PM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 120 of 128 (618636)
06-04-2011 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Jon
06-04-2011 12:57 PM


Re: Redistribution Of Wealth
Well, I believe in GOD, but I would never rely on GOD to provide me with what I wanted/needed for survival even though I believe that GOD is the only one who can provide those things.
Then you believe God exists, but you don't believe in God (ie., you don't have faith in god, only his existence).
But I think that seems reasonable. There is nothing wrong with letting reality trump belief.
But if you believe God exists in reality, and you trust that he will look after you in reality - you wouldn't need to rationalise this way. It is evidence of your lack of faith.
Does this speak to Christ being a communist, though? Communism is a societal/political ideology which seeks, in part, to make life better and sustainable to everyone with a fairly equal standard of living for individualsinstead of the averagely high standard of living provided by capitalism.
Jesus didn't speak of workers controlling the means of production or anything that's for sure. As far as society goes he did seem to be 'give what you can, take only what you need' which is similar to the communist idea, but isn't communism itself, no.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Jon, posted 06-04-2011 12:57 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Jon, posted 06-04-2011 2:56 PM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 122 of 128 (618662)
06-04-2011 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Jon
06-04-2011 2:56 PM


Re: Redistribution Of Wealth
What does it even mean to believe in GOD? I think it is irrational to starve myself to death while waiting for some undetectable entity to bring me some food.
I was suggesting that you shouldn't worry about eating tomorrow, only about eating today, if you trust that God will provide for you as per Matthew 6.
I believe GOD exists, just like I believe the farmers who grow my food exist. I do not 'trust that he will look after' me, though
Indeed, that kind of faith is rare, which is what I said. It's not a personal slight against you that you don't make gigantic unwarranted leaps of faith.
That GOD or the farmers have what it takes to provide for me or that my trust may be put fully into them for that provision is no reason to stop going to work each day to earn money to live.
Of course not. But if you trust God will provide for you, if you have faith that he will, then you need not worry about saving money.
It depends on what you mean by 'faith'. Hoping for someone else to look after you just because they can is, in my book, a pretty piss-poor way to understand faith.
Indeed. But I was suggesting faith to mean 'trusting God will do what he says' not 'hope that God will exercise his capabilities'. Matthew 6 asks for a huge amount of faith, a foolish amount of faith in my opinion. I was just drawing the distinction between actually trusting someone (having faith) and merely believing they exist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Jon, posted 06-04-2011 2:56 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Jon, posted 06-04-2011 9:31 PM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 124 of 128 (618690)
06-05-2011 4:14 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by Jon
06-04-2011 9:31 PM


Re: Redistribution Of Wealth
I cannot think of GOD having made any promises, certainly nothing I could expect holding IT to.
You should read the Bible, he starts with the promises pretty early on.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Jon, posted 06-04-2011 9:31 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Jon, posted 06-05-2011 10:43 AM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 126 of 128 (618700)
06-05-2011 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by Jon
06-05-2011 10:43 AM


Re: Redistribution Of Wealth
I don't believe in the God of the 'Bible'.
That's nice Jon, but in a thread about Christ in which I responded to a Christian who lamented falling short of Christ's standards by pointing out that few people meet the standards of faith set out in the Gospel of Matthew, maybe I was talking about the God of the Bible when I said
quote:
I wouldn't worry about it too much though, many people profess to have a deep faith in God who actually don't trust him at all.
which caused you to reply
quote:
Well, I believe in GOD
Now we have established that what I was talking about was irrelevant to you, shall I then disregard the entire discussion that followed?

Christ could be said to be a commune-ist, who appealed to the ultimate central authority. He was apparently against saving, pensions etc etc in some capacity, not against a decentralised economy - but probably against mega-corps. I would suggest he was proposed a needs based attitude to money, similar to the communist idea of 'From each according to his ability, to each according to his need', but that's probably where any similarities end.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Jon, posted 06-05-2011 10:43 AM Jon has not replied

  
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