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Author Topic:   The Global Consciousness Project
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 16 of 21 (619297)
06-09-2011 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by hooah212002
06-09-2011 11:25 AM


A pseudoskeptic is someone that states a paranormal result (since most of the time it is the paranormals that talk about pseudoskeptics) is the result of some methodological error or other artifact without showing evidence that this is in fact the case.
Of course, skeptics that point out methodological errors haven't been ruled out and so the result is near meaningless (since there is evidence that such methodological errors can produce similar results) are often called pseudoskeptics too.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 829 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 17 of 21 (619301)
06-09-2011 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Modulous
06-09-2011 11:48 AM


So I see. I guess I assumed the most basic definition with the "pseudo" to mean "not really a skeptic".

"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 21 (619303)
06-09-2011 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by hooah212002
06-09-2011 11:59 AM


So I see. I guess I assumed the most basic definition with the "pseudo" to mean "not really a skeptic".
Your right, but its going in the other direction, like, they're way too skeptical to be considered a skeptic because they just reject stuff for no good reason instead of actually considering it like a skeptic should.

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fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4173 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 19 of 21 (619309)
06-09-2011 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by New Cat's Eye
06-09-2011 10:42 AM


Sure, the whole "prediction" aspect of it is pretty ghey. Its interesting that the randomness can become non-random for some reason though.
I guess one of my problems with this whole experiment is I cant see how a collective consciousness could effect a random number generator. How could you perform a control? You would need to shield duplicate RNG's from consciousness,and have them placed in the same locations as the non-control ones. I dont see how this is even remotely possible since we cannot prove it is consciousness that is causing these non random results, even then how and with what would you shield it with? Magneto's brain bucket maybe?

"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 21 (619311)
06-09-2011 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by fearandloathing
06-09-2011 12:23 PM


I guess one of my problems with this whole experiment is I cant see how a collective consciousness could effect a random number generator.
Yeah, that's what makes it interesting. I guess its something about provoking immediate incredulity that makes me want to look further.
How could you perform a control? You would need to shield duplicate RNG's from consciousness,and have them placed in the same locations as the non-control ones. I dont see how this is even remotely possible since we cannot prove it is consciousness that is causing these non random results, even then how and with what would you shield it with?
Maybe a lead box, encased in concrete, or something like that. We'd have to try to show that the resultrs are not due to consciousness, and I too am not sure how that could be done. Especially when considering the consciousness on a global scale
Still though, a simple post hoc analysis is intriguing.

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fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4173 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 21 of 21 (619701)
06-11-2011 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by New Cat's Eye
06-09-2011 12:39 PM


More on Random Number Generators and consciousness
I was looking into RNG's a little more and found this paper that was published in the Journal of Scientific Exploration, Yes I know they deal with fringe science and are not accepted by many as a true science journal.
Exploratory Study: The Random Number Generator
and Group Meditation
Department of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, Biomedical Engineering Institute,
MMC 297, and Bakken Medical Instrumentation and Device Lab, University of
Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN 55455
"e-mail: Lynnemasonl08@yahoo.com
Institute of Noetic Sciences, 101 San Antonio Road, Petaluma, CA 94952
Abstract-Experiments using truly random number generators (RNGs) have
reportedly demonstrated anomalous deviations in various group settings. To explore
these claims, group meditation (average 261 females, 398 males) was tested
as a venue for possibly inducing these deviations using a true RNG located in
a large meditation hall. A total of 94 hours and 33,927 trials, each trial consisting
of 1,000 random bits collected in 10-second periods, were recorded during
meditation (Transcendental Meditation and advanced techniques). Cumulative
deviation results were in accordance with chance expectation for baseline data,
but showed significant non-randomness for the first (p < 0.00001) and second set
of meditation data (p < 0.00001). A sub-section of the meditations, known as
"yogic flying," showed significant deviations for both the first (p < 0.000001)
and the second data sets (p < 0.000001). Results at a second test location known
as the Vedic Observatory were significant for the first (p < 0.01) and second data
collections (p < 0.05). All results were analyzed for any possible mean drift by
subtracting differences in the pre- and post-test baseline slopes. After the
adjustment for any drift, the direction and the experimental results were still
significantly atypical, with a greater number of zeros being generated than ones.
The use of non-exclusive-or-ed methods to eliminate drifts of the mean of the
random data is discussed as well as the use of RNGs for measuring changes in
collective consciousness associated with standardized meditation.
The whole pdf can be viewed here .
This paper goes into a little more detail on how the test were performed and the equipment used. I find the commentary section at the end interesting, lots or good criticism, this does seem to lend some credibility to the Journal of Scientific Exploration.
It would seem to be useful to have more people involved in RNG research.
By standards in other areas, RNG research is very inexpensive, and
reasonably easy to do. Seeing results from more groups, in a variety of
settings and with a variety of approaches, might be a very good thing.
MIKEL AICKIN
maickin @ comcast. net
The above was a small portion of the critique taken from the commentary at the end of the pdf,, I think the criticism of the paper is spot on, and was very enlightening.

"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

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