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Author | Topic: Stumpers for PZ Myers | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22492 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
This is a fairly appropriate place to put this since it took place during PZ Myers visit to the British isles.
My admiration for PZ Myers just skyrocketed. Watch as he more than holds his own against a Muslim fundamentalist in this sidewalk debate:
(In case the video isn't visible for you, here's the link to it at YouTube: http://youtu.be/3T5Pm7qLH50) Being able to think and talk at the same time is an admirable skill. --Percy
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nwr Member Posts: 6411 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Percy writes:
From his pharyngula posts on biology, from that Glascow talk, and similar sources, you can tell that he is still actively working in biology. From the fact that he is an Associate Professor at UMM, you can tell that he publication rate is low. I'm not sure what else there is to say on the subject. I would like to see Myers answer the bonus question about his recent work. I did do a quick check of his publications, and it does seem to be true that he's published very little recently. I took that question to be a cheap shot, an attempt to smear PZ with the implication that he is letting his work slip because of what he does on his blog. However, PZ was previously a prolific poster on talk.origins (the usenet group), so his blogging is probably just a change of outlet. If I recall correctly, he didn't much like creationists or religion in his usenet posts, so not much has changed other than the venue. Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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Percy Member Posts: 22492 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
nwr writes: From the fact that he is an Associate Professor at UMM, you can tell that he publication rate is low. Decreasing output is associated with increasing seniority? Hard for me to buy that. I would have expected decreasing direct involvement with the research due to a growing coterie of grad students whose activities must be managed, but with the result of increasing publication output. --Percy
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nwr Member Posts: 6411 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
I see that I wasn't clear enough.
I'm suggesting that he would be a full professor by now, unless his publication rate is below expectations. Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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Percy Member Posts: 22492 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
nwr writes: I'm suggesting that he would be a full professor by now, unless his publication rate is below expectations. Oh, oh, oh, yes, I see what you're saying: He's still a lowly associate professor instead of a full professor, and his slight publication rate is a likely factor. I'm not sure I buy that, either. Associate professor is only one level down from full, and he's tenured. Though interestingly Myers seems to view tenure as an arbitrary process, saying in his blog (Page not found | ScienceBlogs):
PZ Myers writes: One is to offer my personal sympathy to Francis Beckwith. Tenure is a brutal, evil machine that puts everyone through a hellish torture, and often spits out the deserving and rewards the undeserving. Do not ever judge someone by whether they have got tenure or notit's too arbitrary for that, and often represents a kind of insubstantial and subjective matching or mismatching between a person and an institution. So on a personal level, I wish Beckwith well and hope he and his family move on to a satisfying position elsewhere. But anyway, once tenure is achieved one has the freedom to not publish, so maybe PZ is taking advantage of that freedom. And on the other hand, the university has the freedom to withhold or minimize salary increases and assign basement offices for underperforming associate professors, so even after tenure there's pressure to perform. But we don't know whether the university approves of Myers visible extracurricular activities. Perhaps they view them positively, sort of as public service activities in the area of the public education of science, and treat him pretty well. So he just keeps on doing what he's doing. As is Behe. --Percy Edited by Percy, : Minor correction.
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Mazzy  Suspended Member (Idle past 4617 days) Posts: 212 From: Rural NSW, Australia Joined: |
Panda writes: quote:I would be very surprised if this question (for example) was asked during a verbal debate. Unless you were at a biology conference, I doubt that 90% of people could understand the question - and I would expect the 90% wouldn't understand the answer either. What I would be wary of is if they translate the Unless you can reply in similar terms, then the audience will only 'understand' the question and not understand the answer. This could then mean that Myers loses 'by default'. Will his audience really be that educated in biology?(I know that I am having trouble understanding some of the questions - and they are written down. If they were read out to me, I would probably need them repeated.) When is homology not homology? I think evolutionists need to sort out the basics of their science before trying to answer the hard questions .... "In the quarter-century since de Beer published his essay,many additional examples have corroborated his conclusions. It is now clear that several distinct kinds of dissociations can evolve between homologous genes and homologous aspects of morphology [2,3,4,5] (Figure 1). In such cases, homology at one level of biological organization does not reflect homology at another [6,7]. Furthermore, evolutionary dissociations of this kind may be more common than is generally appreciated, particularly when comparisons are made across deep phylogenetic divides." http://biology.mcgill.ca/...s/Wray,%20%20Abouheif%201998.pdf
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 311 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
I think evolutionists need to sort out the basics of their science before trying to answer the hard questions .... Then you will be delighted to learn that evolutionists have sorted out the basis of their science. Let us know if you guys ever come up with any hard questions.
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Percy Member Posts: 22492 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Hi Mazzy,
I'm having trouble following that excerpt. Could you explain what he's saying in your own words? --Percy
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3988 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
Thanks for the video, Percy. PZ Myers does think well on his feet.
It fascinates me that the Islamic Education and Research Academy uploaded this footage, presumably believing it somehow advances their agenda. I suppose to the extent that they did not stone anyone, it does. I must say, however caustic Dawkins and Myers may be in print or at the podium, they seemed quite civil, even genial, in one-on-one discussions. So I'd call it on style points a tie; on substance, a blow-out for the atheists. Dost thou think, because thou art virtuous, there shall be no more cakes and ale? -Shakespeare Real things always push back.-William James
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Percy Member Posts: 22492 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Omnivorous writes: It fascinates me that the Islamic Education and Research Academy uploaded this footage, presumably believing it somehow advances their agenda. I suppose to the extent that they did not stone anyone, it does. I think the arguments made by their man, and very articulately, must resonate strongly with them and feel to them far more powerful than Myers' brief statements about the primacy of evidence and empiricism. They seem, like all other devout religionists, completely unaware that they are engaging in the exact same apologetics, in form if not in detail, as all other religions. Except for the particulars there's not a whit of difference in their various nonsense. --Percy
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nwr Member Posts: 6411 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Here's the Q&A session video. It is around 52 minutes in length.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhX-8fBPWEs PZ screwed up badly in the Q&A. Or at least that's what the ID blogs are claiming. See Colliding With The Pharyngula: My Encounter With PZ Myers and People apologised when the speaker for design was shouted down, but …. They are apparently describing the section beginning at around 3.46 in the video. Watch, and decide for yourself whether the ID complaints are warranted. Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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Panda Member (Idle past 3739 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Mazzy writes:
Nice job at not reading my post. *irrelevant blathering* Oh - but you have a history of not reading what you are quoting, don't you.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
PZ screwed up badly in the Q&A. PZ has now put up his own account onto pharyngula
quote:
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nwr Member Posts: 6411 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
PZ's account fits what I could see on the video far better than do the ID blogs that I mentioned.
Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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derwood Member (Idle past 1902 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
The last question is an exercise in misdirection and a bit of an ad hominem - one has to wonder how many scientific papers Wells, Dembski, etc. have EVER published. One should note that Myers has been published in both Science and Nature, accomplishments that nearly all YEC/IDCs can only dream of.
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