War and Morality. Al Qaeda v USA

Just for a little context, these are the people you guys are defending.

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GENEVA, March 9 (AFP) - A UN report accused the radical Islamic regime in Afghanistan Thursday of violating women's rights with "unabated severity," including mass abductions and forced prostitution.
The report cited testimony from refugees about the large-scale abduction of women and girls by militia of the ruling Taliban movement during fighting last year in the northern and central parts of the country.
UN rapporteur Kamal Hossain provided testimony about ethnic Hazara and Tajik women being rounded up in trucks and taken from the regions of Mazar-e-Sharif, Pol-e-Khomri and Shamali to neighbouring Pakistan and the Taliban stronghold of Kandahar.
"Many suspect that women and girls end up forced into prostitution," his report said, adding that "women have been killed and maimed trying to escape from these trucks."
Women from the Kabul, Mazar-e-Sharif and Shamali regions also gave accounts of forced marriages to Taliban members, it said.

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Today it is still impossible to find women not covered by burqas, the symbol of Taliban gender domination, on the streets of Afghanistan's second city. And many women have to hide the fact that they work from their neighbours for fear of insults, or worse. The reinvigorated Taliban burn schools and behead teachers for daring to offer education to girls. Judges steeped in decades of the most conservative form of Sharia law routinely send women and girls to prison for disobeying their father's choice in marriage, or deserting violent husbands. Rape victims end up facing charges of adultery.

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The Taliban was, quite possibly, the most brutal regime in the world. They instituted a distorted and medieval form of Sharia (Islamic law). This was a vehicle for the grave human rights abuses the Taliban imposed on the country including arbitrary arrests, torture, the war crime of attacking civilians, and extremely harsh punishments (such as public executions, amputations, beatings, and stonings) for relatively minor offences. The Ministry for Public Vice and Virtue obliged Afghans to adhere to extremely strict and conservative standards (i.e. men were required to grow beards; many forms of music were banned).

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From the age of eight, women were not allowed to be in direct contact with men, other than a close blood relative, husband, or in-law (see mahram).[9] Other restrictions were:
Women should not appear in the streets without a blood relative and without wearing a Burqa (also Burkha, Burka or Burqua).
Women should not wear high-heeled shoes as no man should hear a woman’s footsteps lest it excite him.
Women must not speak loudly in public as no stranger should hear a woman's voice.[10]
All ground and first floor residential windows should be painted over or screened to prevent women being visible from the street.
The photographing or filming of women was banned as was displaying pictures of females in newspapers, books, shops or the home.
The modification of any place names that included the word "women." For example, "women's garden" was renamed "springtime garden".[11]
Women were forbidden to appear on the balconies of their apartments or houses.
Ban on women's presence on radio, television or at public gatherings of any kind.[12]

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"Civilian targets" like a factory, sure."Civilian targets" like a restaurant, however, is not part of our rules of engagement.Now, there's what's supposed to happen and what actually happens. I'm not really talking about fog of war or bad intel or mistakes or even a psycho in uniform.I'm talking about an organization that's willing to state: "Here's our goal and here's what we will or will not attack in principle."IF they are willing to do that and stick to it, then we should be willing to better apply the label of terrorist to those to whom is actually fits

Actually, we're not. I'm talking in general, and I'm really thinking more about Iraq than Afghanistan.I don't know that the Taliban is doing a lot of targeting of civilians and IEDs. Maybe they are, I just don't know. I do know this is going on in Iraq.

You actually think the US is open and honest about the foul acts of war they readily commit? Why do you think they have criminalized Julian Assange? Because they want their heinous acts to be on the low low as far as the US public is concerned. They want to uphold their good guy image.Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

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"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

But we also targeted workers in factories, supply chains, transportation systems, people in villages that support enemies as well as whole villages themselves; and continue to see 'collateral losses'.The key thing that I don't see getting discussed is the required change in paradigm and rules of conflict that will be necessary in the future. We are still fighting the current wars by the rules of the last war. That is a sure recipe for failure.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Where have you been, Phat? The KKK is exactly that, so are militia groups, and they've been active for a long while in the US.Militia groups are actively trying to do what Al Qaeda is doing. Oklahoma City bombing was a militia group. They both have the same agenda.- Oni

I never saw anything that implyed thet bombing civilians is ok and not terrorism.All i saw was discussions of why people put on bombs and blow themselves up and if the US could also be considered as a terrorist organization because civilians get killed by them too.Personally i would never use a gun to kill somebody be it the devil himself Hitler or god i personal think killing is wrong but then again i am an atheist so i dont have as many loop holes in my moral standard as religious people do The only loophole i have is if someone would directly threten me or someone i am close to. This loophole does not incloude the country those people come from their religion their nationality .... just the people that are the direct threat.

For my answer, go back and read the sentence before the one you quoted.

I don't disagree - but some of us are doing that, too.I'm not sure I understand the difference between "illegal out-of-uniform combatant" and "private military contractor", for instance, except that the Xe/Blackwater guys are on our side and not theirs.

Lets not forget all these comments made by, what some would consider, fine upstanding Americans.

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George W. Bush (President of the United States)

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"I don't think that witchcraft is a religion. I wish the military would rethink this decision."*

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"God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."

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"Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."

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"This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while."

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*Comment about Wiccans in the military

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Of course look at his ignorant daddy who doesn't realize that "One nation under god", and "In god we trust" was not added til 1954, 1956; Eisenhower was scared of godless commies so had them added to money and the pledge, til then we were never one nation under god.

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George Bush Sr. (President of the United States)

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"I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

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Just a few more from random people...

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Ann Coulter

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"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war."

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"Not all Muslims may be terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims."

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"Being nice to people is, in fact, one of the incidental tenets of Christianity, as opposed to other religions whose tenets are more along the lines of 'kill everyone who doesn't smell bad and doesn't answer to the name Mohammed'"
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J. B. Stoner (White Supremacist) (1924 - 2005)

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"We had lost the fight for the preservation of the white race until God himself intervened in earthly affairs with AIDS to rescue and preserve the white race that he had created.... I praise God all the time for AIDS."

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"AIDS is a racial disease of Jews and Niggers, and fortunately it is wiping out the queers. I guess God hates queers for several reasons. There is one big reason to be against queers and that is because every time some white boy is seduced by a queer into becoming a queer, means his white bloodline has run out."
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Lt. Gen. William G. Boykin

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George Bush was not elected by a majority of the voters in the United States, he was appointed by God.
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Pat Buchanan (Presidential Candidate)

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"Our culture is superior. Our culture is superior because our religion is Christianity and that is the truth that makes men free."

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"There were no politics to polarize us then, to magnify every slight. The "negroes" of Washington had their public schools, restaurants, bars, movie houses, playgrounds and churches; and we had ours."

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"Rail as they will about 'discrimination,' women are simply not endowed by nature with the same measures of single-minded ambition and the will to succeed in the fiercely competitive world of Western capitalism."
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Randall Terry (Operation Rescue)

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"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."

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"Our goal must be simple. We must have a Christian nation built on God's law, on the ten Commandments. No apologies."

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"I don't think Christians should use birth control. You consummate your marriage as often as you like — and if you have babies, you have babies."

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"When I, or people like me, are running the country, you'd better flee, because we will find you, we will try you, and we'll execute you. I mean every word of it. I will make it part of my mission to see to it that they are tried and executed."

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"There is going to be war, [and Christians may be called to] take up the sword to overthrow the tyrannical regime that oppresses them."
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Rush Limbaugh

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"Feminism was established to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream of society."

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"If you commit a crime, you're guilty."

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"There is only one way to get rid of nuclear weapons... use them"

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sourceSome of these views seem just as extreme and intolerant as the Taliban.After 9/11 I heard a few people suggest we retaliate by all kinds of ways from nukes, to crashing planes into some of their buildings, the volunteer list probably wouldn't be long, but I am sure we could find more then a few Christian soldiers who would've been willing.Morals are somewhat subjective anyway, our Idea of what is acceptable and theirs differs for most of us, not all though, plenty of radical Christians who would like nothing more then to exterminate certain groups, gays...Muslims, atheist...ect.I guess the taliban acts on it's beliefs more the the radical Christians do, they tend to climb up on the soapbox and shout, the taliban actually goes out and does these terrible things.Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

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"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. ThompsonAd astra per asperaNihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

Just a small correction. The pledge was changed during Ike's administration but it was done by Congress and driven mostly by the Knights of Columbus.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

No. Al Qaeda was the guest of the Taliban. Al Qaeda was an announced and sworn enemy of the West. We drew a line in the sand, told everyone who was for us to step onto our side, and went after the house guest. What other strategy can be employed against such terror tactics?

That mission ended at Tora Bora when Bush allowed bin Laden to escape. That was ten years ago. That's the point at which we became the "bad guest", only there's nobody big and bad enough to kick us out.Why are we still there killing people, Phat? Bin Laden is dead. The masterminds of 9/11 are dead. How about "don't give a shit"? Less people died in 9/11 than died that year in motorcycle accidents. If you had absolutely no terror policy whatsoever, if the TSA didn't exist, if you could bring anything you wanted onto an airplane - a bomb, a gun, a poison gas canister, whatever you wanted - the most dangerous part of flying would still be the car ride to the airport.Instead of being a nation of bellicose pussies, we should take a cue from the Brits and just carry the fuck on. If a terrorist gets a bomb to a cafe - shit happens, and we should find the guy that did it and make an arrest. But turning Afghanistan into the 51st US state has done absolutely nothing either to reduce global terror or combat the spread of Al-Queda.

Points noted.I guess my main question that remains unanswered is why these young professionals, most of them educated and coming from nice homes...and many not religious...joined this organization that committed to a war against the West. Why can't they just come and compete with the rest of us and earn a living?

Religion. Duh!