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Author Topic:   War and Morality. Al Qaeda v USA
anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 3 of 175 (621339)
06-25-2011 6:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
06-25-2011 5:57 AM


IMHO
The ability to target individuals instead of populations is close to realization. The wife says leave Afghanistan to the relatively civilizing force of the Iranians, I say leave Afghanistan period and let technology (or in one recent case, Delta Team 6) deal with individual threats.

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 06-25-2011 5:57 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 125 of 175 (622011)
06-30-2011 3:05 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by fearandloathing
06-29-2011 5:48 PM


Americans as Bad Guys Always
fearandloathing writes:
I love history, can you please site some sources?? not being a smart ass.
Me too, already accepted for grad school again (to obvious relief of some here).
The issues brought up in the post you have responded to are worthy of further discussion in another thread. I know what two people (mom also) in the US Navy thought about those bombs and what they meant for overall casualties for both sides, directly.
My father, on Okinawa at the time, was heavily involved. Perhaps his survival should (at least from my perspective) be discussed in the existence thread.

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by fearandloathing, posted 06-29-2011 5:48 PM fearandloathing has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 147 of 175 (622276)
07-02-2011 1:53 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by dronestar
06-30-2011 11:58 AM


Re: Soft Targets vs Terrorism
dronester writes:
Of the many items, which particular items on my list do you find dubious? I am thinking at least some of the points were "un-contestable" to moral and intelligent people.
How can winning WW2 be considered 'immoral' after the rape of Nanjing and the Bataan Death March? Do you actually think that when one considers Makin, Tarawa, Pelieu, Saipan, and so on, the military under the Japanese Empire under the false doctrine of Bushido were just going to surrender en mass, like the Germans?
They fought to the death. Learn some history, a lot of mine is oral and firsthand. Are you unaware of Kamakaze pilots?
There is some debate over the use of the atomic bombs, however, I have studied this problem and feel the solution, considering both military and political considerations, was unfortunately inevitable.
One article against the collective judgment of the people who were there at the time hardly constitutes a refutation of their decisions.
Yeah, I wish it didn't happen, but to argue that it made no difference is easily shown as being false. You don't have to take my word for it, ask Hirohito.
Yeah, I'm an idiot. I hope this post absolves me of having to go chapter and verse, but if necessary I will.
There is a lot of documentation concerning the surrender of Japan other than Zinn. Ever heard of General Anami, the last shot revolt, the Hirohito speech, the hassle over its recording.
Of course not, as I am more stupid than Palin according to you.
Let's rock, self-appointed badass.

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by dronestar, posted 06-30-2011 11:58 AM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by dronestar, posted 07-05-2011 11:48 AM anglagard has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 149 of 175 (622279)
07-02-2011 2:21 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by xongsmith
07-02-2011 2:07 AM


Re: European whitewash
xomgsmith writes:
In fact, I am fairly sure that nuking Hiroshima & Nagasaki were also, in the eyes of the top military US officials all the way up to Truman, "convenient" demonstrations to the Russians that the US also had their ass, should they ever get out of line.
My understanding is ultimately Truman felt the taxpayers bought it therefore use it.
Midwesterners may lack subtlety, but they make up for it in practicality, even when the the moral issues are difficult.

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by xongsmith, posted 07-02-2011 2:07 AM xongsmith has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 150 of 175 (622380)
07-02-2011 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Straggler
07-01-2011 1:57 PM


The Woven Image
I don't mean to derail this thread but i do feel I must respond to this one point.
Straggler writes:
Certainly the American idea of school children pledging allegiance to the flag is pretty alien. And the idea of having symbols like a flags decorating one's desk at work or outside one's house would be considered totally weird and somewhat disturbing.
In the first year of high school, my daughter and one other student refused to 'pledge allegiance to the flag' of either the USA or Texas on the grounds it amounted to the worship of a woven image (wonder where she got that idea?).
However the principal had one up his sleeve. They were excused from the pledge but had to go to the main office to sit it out. By the time they went to the main office, it was over.
Oh, BTW, at the time my daughter self-described her religious position as atheist, today she self-describes as agnostic (naturally in defiance of the language police as well as the false patriotism police).
Edited by anglagard, : Previous title, upon reflection, a bit over the top.

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Straggler, posted 07-01-2011 1:57 PM Straggler has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by dwise1, posted 07-02-2011 9:02 PM anglagard has replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 152 of 175 (622392)
07-02-2011 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by dwise1
07-02-2011 9:02 PM


Re: The Woven Image
dwise1 writes:
Has she since learned that those idiotic devisive words were added by Congress in 1954? Or that they then trashed the National Motto in 1956? Never mind defacing our currency in 1955.
Knew it in elementary school. She is a math major who graduated from JC before graduating HS.
Aren't you a mathematician? If so I'd watch out! She is also an officer in the Secular Student Alliance and the Gay Straight Alliance, and member of the film club (wonder where she got that from?).
Proud father crap aside, as to the policy, yes their hands were tied by court decisions, much to their consternation.
Also, she (and I, as a veteran) objected to any pledge to Texas woven idols even more than to any USA woven idols.
Patriotism, my ass.
Guess I'd best shut up, am derailing.
Edited by anglagard, : No reason given.

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by dwise1, posted 07-02-2011 9:02 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by dwise1, posted 07-02-2011 10:24 PM anglagard has not replied

  
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