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Author Topic:   Did any sceptics ever consider Pilate a myth?
Portillo
Member (Idle past 4160 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 16 of 21 (623759)
07-13-2011 6:15 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Chuck77
07-12-2011 3:16 AM


If Pilate wasnt in the Bible, I dont think anyone would consider that he was a myth.
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Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

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Larni
Member (Idle past 163 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 17 of 21 (623763)
07-13-2011 7:05 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Portillo
07-13-2011 6:15 AM


If Pilate wasnt in the Bible, I dont think anyone would consider that he was a myth.
That's not true, lots of things in the bible are true: was Paul of Tarsus a myth?
I don't think so.
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 21 (623786)
07-13-2011 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Chuck77
07-12-2011 3:16 AM


So, if this is a wide spread epidemic (as you seem to think it is based on your long detailed post) that believers are saying this about the sceptics, I think we should submit your post to AIG as one of the "Arguments we think creationists should NOT use"
What does this topic have to do with creationism?
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Love your enemies!

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Kapyong
Member (Idle past 3442 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 19 of 21 (624395)
07-17-2011 5:41 PM


Gday all,
Thanks for replies, sorry for delay - I've been busy moving house :-)
Here's what sparked this off for me :
I've taken part in many debates about the historicity of Jesus (as Kapyong and Iasion.)
Many believers react negatively to the claim that Jesus did not exist, and one of the reactions I have seen quite a few times goes like this :
"Well, you sceptics said Pilate didn't exist - right up until when the Pilate inscription was found, showing you were wrong - so there !"
(unspoken: so, being wrong about Pilate's non-existence, you are also wrong about Jesus' non-existence.)
Well, being interested in people who didn't apparently exist, I couldn't seem to remember anyone arguing Pilate was non-historical. So I searched through my sources (I have my library on disk so I can search for key-words) for "Pilate" and found many references.
But strangely enough - NOT ONE single writer, ancient or modern, ever claimed Pilate didn't exist. Nor was there ANY discussion or argument about anyone who ever did so (*)
I think the conclusion is clear :
The finding of the inscription in 1961 sparked off a rumour - trumpeting the new fact that Pilate's existence was finally "proved", some person went over-the-top and claimed this showed sceptical disbelief about Pilate to be wrong. When no-one ever doubted it in the first place.
Kapyong
(*) Actually, I recall a poster told me there was someone, a recent Russian writer IIRC, who did make some comment about Pilate's name's meaning, and this was mis-translated implying Pilate may not have existed. I seem to have lost my notes on that issue, dang it. I'll check that one.
Edited by Kapyong, : Minor fixes

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IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 20 of 21 (624612)
07-19-2011 4:17 AM


The premise of Pilate being a myth does not give any veracity or credibility to the Gospels stories. Indeed, usually real life figures are intermixed with false events to prop it up. More impressive than Pilates would be evidence of a Trial in Rome, as described in the Gospels - none exists, while many other mundane trails are listed.
Further, the premise for such a trial defies logic and history. There was a heresy decree made on Judea by Rome's depraved emperors, requiring all to worship and sacrifice to the Roman emperor. In this case, how could a Jew in Judea respond to the charge of heresy? Like a million other Jews, Jesus would have no crevice of escape from crucifixion by virtue of his percieved heresy against Rome. This result would require no prompting from alledged Jewish preists, who were also killed off with their families by Rome when the Temple was destroyed.
It makes no sense whatsoever - yet billions believe it.

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 21 (624728)
07-19-2011 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Kapyong
07-17-2011 5:41 PM


Demand for a Sign
I think the real issue regarding Pilate is the paucity of evidence for his existence. Until the discovery of the inscription, there was nothing available about Pilate other than a few written records.
This relates to the argument from silence often used against the historicity of Jesus: even a ruling official such as Pilate left little evidence of his existence; expecting such evidence to exist for an historical Jesus is, therefore, rather unreasonable.
In fact, the argument can be turned around and framed in a different way. As you said, no one ever seriously doubted the existence of Pontius Pilate; yet before the discovery of the stone bearing his name, there was about as much evidence for Pilate's existence as there is for Jesus' existence, especially when we adjust for their relative political and social stations.
The ahistoricists set their criteria of evidence in the case of Jesus unreasonably high. Many are otherwise reasonable people, so one can only wonder that they do this in order that they can intentionally prevent their criteria every being fulfilled and remain convinced of their ahistorical position.
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
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