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Author Topic:   Loneliness and Belief
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2477 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 16 of 22 (450303)
01-21-2008 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Archer Opteryx
01-21-2008 2:15 PM


Re: Anything but God
Archer writes:
I don't see any denial, NJ. I see neutrality. The researchers take no stand on the likelihood of supernatural beings existing, just as they take no stand on whether our pets are like us or not like us.
Quite right, you just beat me to it. And while the article says that loneliness is bad for our health, it doesn't say or imply that the things that lonely people do to cope with it, whether anthropomorphising their pets or talking more often to their Gods, are bad for them.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 17 of 22 (450312)
01-21-2008 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Archer Opteryx
01-20-2008 3:00 PM


Some thoughts (and no details):
  • Children often have an imaginary friend who tends to be more compliant than real friends.
  • "Mind-control cults" often target people who feel disconnected from family and friends.
  • Fundamentalist groups often discourage their members from associating with outsiders.

“If you had half a brain, wouldn't you have realized after the second time, that it was you, not God?” -- riVeRraT (see context here)
“The endearing controvertist! One needs to become acute in the ploys of his kind.” -- ThreeDogs

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Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 18 of 22 (450325)
01-21-2008 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Archer Opteryx
01-21-2008 2:11 PM


As I recall from my undergraduate days imprinting was coined by Lorenz and it went on through several itterations (preparedness). Basically I was alluding to the way chicks will 'imprint' on the mother bird and follow mum around.
But the chicks would imprint on anything that they saw in a pretty defined period of their development. So you could argue that their brains are prepared for a mother figure and will imprint on anything about the right size that is not trying to eat them.
Now you could argue that humans are prepared to recognise other intelligent action. If we see the long grass moving we can conclude it is the wind (most likely) or a stalking lion (which is capable of intentional action). This is a good way to not get eaten by erring on the side of caution as we over estimate the 'intent' there is in the environment (this would have survival value).
This is where my idea goes way specualative:
If our brains are prepared to conclude intent it will do so starting with the most obvious source of intent e.g. other people. Take away the people and our intent detection software seeks out the next most obvious source of intent untill we become so satrved of intentional stimulus that we percieve intent when there is none.
A bit like the hallucinations you get from sensory depriviation.
Anyway, people do get lonely and are (apparently) more likely to conclude 'god' when they are and it could be tied into our preparedness to conclude intent.
Phew, started at imprinting and got to concluding intent! Does that mean by my own definition I'm lonely? My girlfriend is working late and my dvd stand is telling me to stop typing.

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Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 19 of 22 (450432)
01-21-2008 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Archer Opteryx
01-20-2008 3:00 PM


quote:
test their expectations that lonely people are more likely to make up for their lack of social connection by creating humanlike connections with gadgets or pets {emphasis mine}
I find that point interesting. In my experience lonely people are more likely to project anthropomorphic ideas onto their pets. Don't get me wrong, I like animals, but I do think that the lonelier someone is, the more likely they are to regard their pets as little furry people.

Mutate and Survive

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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 20 of 22 (450450)
01-21-2008 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Granny Magda
01-21-2008 8:21 PM


Some go even farther than that, to inanimate objects or imaginary people

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 21 of 22 (624009)
07-15-2011 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Rahvin
01-21-2008 1:05 PM


Re: Anything but God
Ringo writes:
Some thoughts (and no details):
  • Children often have an imaginary friend who tends to be more compliant than real friends.
  • "Mind-control cults" often target people who feel disconnected from family and friends.
  • Fundamentalist groups often discourage their members from associating with outsiders.
Is it possible that I desire a compliant God? (Most definitely so!)
I am a cosmological creationist, BTW. I have no qualms about evolution!
Rahvin writes:
Quite to the contrary, I found believing in an all-powerful father-figure deity who loved me to be a very easy mindset. It was extremely difficult to lose my faith. Very unpleasant.
What advice would you give a believer such as I? Is it necessary to abandon ones faith due to atheism being more logical, rational, and reasonable? The advice I give myself is that believing in an interactive and loving God is not only good for my mental health, it does not interfere with other daily rationality. Its not like I believe Him to be imaginary, nor a construct of my imagination. Does denial of such logic affect mental health in any way?

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Replies to this message:
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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 22 of 22 (624048)
07-15-2011 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Phat
07-15-2011 11:29 AM


Re: Anything but God
Phat writes:
Is it necessary to abandon ones faith due to atheism being more logical, rational, and reasonable?
I guess it depends what you mean by "necessary". Is it "necessary" to give up believing in Santa Claus if that belief makes you happy? From a social acceptability point of view it probably is necessary to give up believing in Santa. Religious beliefs are however socially acceptable. Is social acceptability the measure that should be applied? I don't know.
Phat writes:
The advice I give myself is that believing in an interactive and loving God is not only good for my mental health, it does not interfere with other daily rationality.
Social pariahism aside - Would you recommend that a Santa believer who cites the same reasons for their belief as you do for yours gives that belief up? Is there a point of absurdity or untenability where a belief no matter how nice it makes you feel becomes something that you are better off without?
I don't really know the answer but my inclination is to think there must be a point where a belief becomes so irrational as to indicate a mental problem of some sort.
Phat writes:
Does denial of such logic affect mental health in any way?
It depends how far you take it and what your natural inclinations are. If you are someone who is prone to sometimes hearing voices in their head that tell them to do terrible and wicked things a rational approach to your problem, thinking about what the most likely cause of these voices is, can only be considered superior to the alternative of embracing those voices as real. For the majority of normal people it is probably fairly harmless. We all hold some beliefs that are not entirely rational. We wouldn't be human if we didn't.
Phat writes:
What advice would you give a believer such as I?
Be true to yourself but don't listen to the voices unless they say nice things.

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