Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,806 Year: 3,063/9,624 Month: 908/1,588 Week: 91/223 Day: 2/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Sai Baba is similar to Jesus Christ - same delusion
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 29 (612207)
04-13-2011 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Aurora
04-11-2011 3:43 PM


Compare/Contrast
These resemblances, to me, have reduced the uniqueness of Jesus.
One potential difference I've come up with:
quote:
Wikipedia on Sathya Sai Baba:
Sathya Sai Baba has explained the phenomenon of manifestation as being an act of divine creation, but refused to have his materializations investigated under experimental conditions.
...
Narasimhaiah wrote Sathya Sai Baba three letters that were widely publicized, in which he publicly challenged Baba to perform his miracles under controlled conditions. Sathya Sai Baba said that he ignored Narasimhaiah's challenge because he felt his approach was improper.
quote:
John 20:26—28 (NRSV):
A week later his disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were shut, Jesus came and stood among them and said, 'Peace be with you.' Then he said to Thomas, 'Put your finger here and see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it in my side. Do not doubt but believe.' Thomas answered him, 'My Lord and my God!'
Jesus seemed much more open to being investigated than Sai Baba. In addition, we have video footage of Sai Baba, which we don't have of Jesusobviously(start watching at 6:35 to see the really good stuff):
Are they not the same kind of delusion about god?
They certainly seem similar; though, like I said, we aren't really able to investigate Jesus' miracles for authenticity like we can with some of Sai Baba's. Nevertheless, it's not worth putting too much stock in them as 'unique'; even in Jesus' day folk like him were a dime a dozenthere were lots of miracle-working sons of gods.
I'd say anyone who clings to these people simply because they believe them to be unique is seriously misguided. Such folk are pretty common through the ages.
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Aurora, posted 04-11-2011 3:43 PM Aurora has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by rueh, posted 04-14-2011 8:10 AM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 29 (612255)
04-14-2011 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by rueh
04-14-2011 8:10 AM


Re: Compare/Contrast
I don't see anything in these passages that tells me Jesus was not open to having his miracles investigated. He occasionally refused to perform a miracle, but when he did, he generally performed them in public, and without any mentioned covering.
But, like I already said, folk such as Jesus weren't uncommon in his day.
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by rueh, posted 04-14-2011 8:10 AM rueh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by rueh, posted 04-15-2011 10:22 AM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 29 (612359)
04-14-2011 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by frako
04-14-2011 6:23 PM


Not Your Typical 'Con Artist'
I think it is a little disingenuous to refer to folk like Jesus and Sai Baba as 'con artists' without any qualifications, especially to compare them to run-of-the-mill televangelist 'healers'.
From what can be understood, it appears as though the instances of healings and miracles are 'genuine' in as much as the folk involved 'know' that something special has taken place. The sick people who get better seem to be real sick people who actually do get betterby what means we cannot necessarily be certain. Cars filled with water seem to actually run to the next townby what means we cannot necessarily be certain. And so on.
Are some of the 'miracles' simply tricks? Likely. Are the others some sort of coincidental luck? Certainly seems to be the best explanation. But by and large the miracles don't seem to involve any conspiracies of the type you've mentioned. Such operations really require more secrecy than can be sustained given the type and publicity of many of the miraclesthough, admittedly, this might explain why Sai Baba, for example, seems to reserve the more complex miracles for more private occasions while the public 'miracles' are less impressive.
Nevertheless, I think your take on the matter is too simplistic. There's more to these things than a magician with his stage hands out to make a buck. David Blaine isn't out telling folk to love their neighbor and give to the poor. The miracles are certainly meant to draw a crowd, but it doesn't seem to be just for the sake of the miracle-workers' fame; instead, the miracle-workers try to draw people in so they can spread their message to a bigger crowdthe attractive miracles serve a bigger purpose: bring people to the message and convince them of its veracity. Even Sai Baba admits, somewhat arrogantly, that his 'miracles' aren't to be regarded as the meaning of his message:
quote:
Wikipedia on Sathya Sai Baba:
Sathya Sai Baba says of "miracles", "those who profess to have understood me, the scholars, the yogis, the pundits, the jnanis, all of them are aware only of the least important, the casual external manifestation of an infinitesimal part of that power, namely, the "miracles"! This has been the case in all ages. People may be very near (physically) to the Avathar, but they live out their lives unaware of their fortune; they exaggerate the role of miracles, which are as trivial, when compared to my glory and majesty, as a mosquito is in size and strength to the elephant upon which it squats. Therefore, when you speak about these 'miracles,' I laugh within myself out of pity that you allow yourself so easily to lose the precious awareness of my reality."
Combine this with the fact that a lot of your information seems entirely pulled from your ass and the point you're trying to make all but vanishes. Miracle-workers like Jesus and Sai Baba aren't the type of 'con artists' you're making them out to be.
Jon
Edited by Jon, : grammar
Edited by Jon, : grammar... again

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by frako, posted 04-14-2011 6:23 PM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by frako, posted 04-15-2011 7:52 AM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 29 (626726)
07-31-2011 1:58 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by tubbyparticle
07-30-2011 11:08 PM


Re: The bible actually predicts things like this.
If this man in india is doing genuinely supernatural things, then even the bible prophesied of his comming, even Jesus himself.
I don't see how the passage you quoted relates to Sai Baba. Would you care to offer a little more explanation?
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by tubbyparticle, posted 07-30-2011 11:08 PM tubbyparticle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by tubbyparticle, posted 07-31-2011 7:16 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 29 (626911)
07-31-2011 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by tubbyparticle
07-31-2011 7:16 PM


Re: The bible actually predicts things like this.
Not just those verses, but various others in the bible predict that false prophets and false teachers would lead people away from the truth of the gospel, either by polluting the gospel with false teaching, or by denying it altogether. If this man in India (whom I realize now is dead) was genuinely doing supernaturally things, and he was claiming to be some messianic figure of some religion contrary to the gospel, and he was also getting many people to follow him, then he was a false christ. The passages are very clear. If however, he was not genuinely doing supernaturally things, if he was just doing tricks, but he was still claiming to be messianic and leading people to follow him, he would still be a false christ, just not one empowered supernaturally by the devil.
Did Sai Baba claim to be messianic?
The passage you quoted from Mark said nothing about performing supernatural acts; so I'm not sure why you keep bringing up the issue of supernatural acts.
The deception Mark talks about isn't the doing of supernatural acts, it is the claiming to be the Messiah.
Did Sai Baba ever make such a claim?
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by tubbyparticle, posted 07-31-2011 7:16 PM tubbyparticle has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024