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Author Topic:   Sai Baba is similar to Jesus Christ - same delusion
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1903
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 16 of 29 (623877)
07-14-2011 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Portillo
07-14-2011 4:01 AM


If they all claim to have been inspired by the same omnipotent entity to write down what happened, then yes.

Especially seeing that this book is supposed to be the only way of getting to know and to know anything about said omnipotent entity. Also knowing that the same entity would send anyone to burn for all eternity if he or she doesn't believe those contradictory renditions of highly unbelievable stories. All those people who he apparantly loves (that's what he says in that same book), but he will also let them all burn for eternity.

To tell you the truth, if I were that said omnipotent entity who loved everyone to death, I wouldn't rely on humans to write down those stories with the idea of that saving them from my own wrath. I would just do it myself in a very loud, clear and unambivalent manner. Just appear to anyone and everyone I love to get rid of the doubt. I would answer prayers. I would help children. I would send rain to drought-stricken areas. I would do lots of things just to deliver on what I promised in my holy book. I would even, after promising them that they could move mountains, just let it happen after a prayer or two.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Portillo, posted 07-14-2011 4:01 AM Portillo has responded

Replies to this message:
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Portillo
Member (Idle past 2056 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 17 of 29 (623980)
07-15-2011 3:57 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Pressie
07-14-2011 8:21 AM


Many people would still not believe even if the deity did those things you mention. The Jewish nation in the old testament is a perfect example. God provided them food, water, escape from bondage etc and they still disbelieved and disobeyed.

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This message is a reply to:
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Larni
Member
Posts: 3954
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 18 of 29 (623981)
07-15-2011 4:23 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Portillo
07-15-2011 3:57 AM


And after all that your god still did not understand how to properly communicate his comands to humans.

You would of thought that a god could make himself clear enough to foster the correct amount of confidence and compliance: that's something my manager at work seems to be able to do and she is just a mere human woman.

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Pressie
Member
Posts: 1903
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 19 of 29 (623989)
07-15-2011 5:54 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Portillo
07-15-2011 3:57 AM


You wrote the word 'many'. The word 'many' doesn't mean 'all.

I, for example, would seroiously consider somebody who appears to me in a way that the appearance is verifiable, who claims to be god, who claims to be omnipotent, who claims to love everyone, who claims to listen to prayers and then also be able to act the way he or she promises to act. For example, I would seriously consider the truthfulness of someone who claims to be omnipotent, claims to listen to prayers and then also demonstrates to be able to miraculously grow back an amputated leg on someone.

I just don't believe anything when the only place you read about it is in a book or books who's authors are unknown. I should be able to observe verifiable evidence if it is true.

You also have to realize that all religions have holy books and/or write about unevidenced 'miracles'. They all are same, no verifiable evidence provided. Just long pieces of text claiming some miracle. Just claims coming from people who's existence are unverifiable andprovide claims about miracles. Claims, that's all that's provided.

The modus operandi iof all the religions are the same. A book with claims that can't be verified. I, for one, don't just believe what some unknown person who claims to be inspired by a ghost writes down. Too many crazy people around.

You write:

Portillo writes:

The Jewish nation in the old testament is a perfect example. God provided them food, water, escape from bondage etc and they still disbelieved and disobeyed.

Thats actually a perfect example of why I dont believe those stories.

I mean, if someone appears to me, and also provides all that was described there to me, I certainly wont doubt the existence of that entity.

For this reason those stories you believe to be true are very highly unlikely. The most likely explanation is that those are just so stories.

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Pressie
Member
Posts: 1903
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 20 of 29 (623991)
07-15-2011 6:19 AM


Let's also have a look at all those prophesies about the birth of Sai Baba. It is very similar to those prophesies about the birth of a redeemer as in the Christian faith. Sai Babas birth has been prophesized 500 hundred years before it happened. The information was obtained from
http://www.saibabaofindia.com/sai_baba_prophesies.htm

saibabaofindia.com writes:

Dr. E.V.Sastri, a prominent member of the Indian Astro Occult Research Association, New Delhi, during the course of his research, found out Nandi Grantham available in Tamil Nadu, which had all the indications about Sathya Sai Babas horoscope written by a famous erudite Pundit, some five hundred years ago. It was written on a piece of palm leaf of the size 36 centimeters long and 2 cms broad. It reads : The person to whom this horoscope relates and whose name is Sathyanarayana Raju will renounce the world in his boyhood, will start schools and hospitals, will publish books for the upliftment of the World, will spend every day of his whole lifetime for the establishment of Dharma, which is his ideal and objective. It is further mentioned that, He will be an Avatar amongst the Avatars. (Taken from the book The Grace of Sai by R.Lowenberg).

Edited by Pressie, : Spelling


    
Panda
Member (Idle past 1608 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 21 of 29 (623992)
07-15-2011 6:21 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Pressie
07-15-2011 5:54 AM


Pressie writes:

I mean, if someone appears to me, and also provides all that was described there to me, I certainly wont doubt the existence of that entity.

What kind of god is unable to convince people that he exists.
It sounds like a laughable proposition to me.
But the bible contains many instances of "God tried to do something and failed", which I find very indicative of a non-omnipotent god.

Jesus: "Hard day at work Dad?"
God: "Yeah, son. I appeared to the Jews in all my glory and they ignored me."
Jesus: "Well, nevermind. Oh - guess what Holy Spirit is cooking for tea..."
God: "Jeez...spaghetti? Again?!"

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tubbyparticle
Junior Member (Idle past 2515 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 07-30-2011


Message 22 of 29 (626697)
07-30-2011 11:08 PM


The bible actually predicts things like this.
If this man in india is doing genuinely supernatural things, then even the bible prophesied of his comming, even Jesus himself.

"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, 4Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled? 5And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you: 6For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 7And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet. 8For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows." - Mark 13:3 (KJV)


Replies to this message:
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 29 (626726)
07-31-2011 1:58 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by tubbyparticle
07-30-2011 11:08 PM


Re: The bible actually predicts things like this.
If this man in india is doing genuinely supernatural things, then even the bible prophesied of his comming, even Jesus himself.

I don't see how the passage you quoted relates to Sai Baba. Would you care to offer a little more explanation?

Jon


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1563 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 24 of 29 (626731)
07-31-2011 2:31 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Portillo
07-13-2011 6:05 AM


quote:
I would like to see the prophecies about Sai Baba. A vast number of prophecies were made about Jesus. All of the following prophecies were made at least 400 years before Jesus birth.
The Redeemer lives - Job 19:25-27
The Messiah would descend from Abraham - Genesis 12:3
The Messiah would descend from Isaac - Genesis 22:18, 26:4
The Messiah would descend from Jacob - Genesis 28:14
The Messiah would descend from Judah - Genesis 49:10-12
Raised up as a great prophet - Deuteronomy 18:15-19
Hung on a tree - Deuteronomy 21:23
The Holy one would not see decay - Psalm 16:1-10
Crucifixion - Psalm 22
False witnesses would accuse him - Psalm 27:12
"Into your hands I commit my spirit" - Psalm 31:3-5
Hated without cause - Psalm 35:19
His friends would stay far away - Psalm 38:11
Betrayed by a friend - Psalm 41:9
Scorned by enemies - Psalm 69:9,19
Descendant of Solomon - 2 Samuel 7:12-14
Speak in parables - Psalm 78:2
Jews would reject him - Psalm 118:22
Descendant of David - Psalm 132:11,12
Born of a virgin - Isaiah 7:14-16
Special miracles - Isaiah 35:4,6
Redeem Israel and be a light to the Gentiles - Isaiah 49:6
Obedient in time of humiliation - Isaiah 50
Suffering servant - Isaiah 53
Come from Bethlehem - Micah 5:1-4
Betrayed for 30 pieces of silver - Zechariah 11:12,13
Pierced - Zechariah 12:10


Not a single verse therein refers to or connects with the Gospels - a cursory reading of other verses in the same reference will prove that. Sai Baba can be proven as a historical figure, but I was unable to find a single proof of Jesus, even after going dizzy keeping up with the qualifications and manouvers embellished in such searches. I found no evidence of a Roman trial, while a host of minutae topical details of mundane items are seen in Roman archives of the same period.

I never gave up and kept searching. Then I assumed the best proof of Jesus is with the Jews and the Hebrew writings, because these are very reliable. But here too I found nothing, this writing in relation to Jesus also being non-contemporary by 200 years. My conclusion is that unless some hard proof turns up, which I grant is almost not possible considering the time factor already lapsed and the vast number of archeological relics found for periods much older, the entire Gospels story is a fiction. Only the belief is sincere. The most disturbing factor about the Gospels is how it fails to mention the war between Rome and the Jews, whereby over a million sacrificed themselves to uphold their belief: this is akin to the NYTimes not mentioning 9/11 on 9/12.

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This message is a reply to:
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tubbyparticle
Junior Member (Idle past 2515 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 07-30-2011


Message 25 of 29 (626894)
07-31-2011 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Jon
07-31-2011 1:58 AM


Re: The bible actually predicts things like this.
quote:
I don't see how the passage you quoted relates to Sai Baba. Would you care to offer a little more explanation?

Not just those verses, but various others in the bible predict that false prophets and false teachers would lead people away from the truth of the gospel, either by polluting the gospel with false teaching, or by denying it altogether. If this man in India (whom I realize now is dead) was genuinely doing supernaturally things, and he was claiming to be some messianic figure of some religion contrary to the gospel, and he was also getting many people to follow him, then he was a false christ. The passages are very clear. If however, he was not genuinely doing supernaturally things, if he was just doing tricks, but he was still claiming to be messianic and leading people to follow him, he would still be a false christ, just not one empowered supernaturally by the devil.


This message is a reply to:
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 29 (626911)
07-31-2011 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by tubbyparticle
07-31-2011 7:16 PM


Re: The bible actually predicts things like this.
Not just those verses, but various others in the bible predict that false prophets and false teachers would lead people away from the truth of the gospel, either by polluting the gospel with false teaching, or by denying it altogether. If this man in India (whom I realize now is dead) was genuinely doing supernaturally things, and he was claiming to be some messianic figure of some religion contrary to the gospel, and he was also getting many people to follow him, then he was a false christ. The passages are very clear. If however, he was not genuinely doing supernaturally things, if he was just doing tricks, but he was still claiming to be messianic and leading people to follow him, he would still be a false christ, just not one empowered supernaturally by the devil.

Did Sai Baba claim to be messianic?

The passage you quoted from Mark said nothing about performing supernatural acts; so I'm not sure why you keep bringing up the issue of supernatural acts.

The deception Mark talks about isn't the doing of supernatural acts, it is the claiming to be the Messiah.

Did Sai Baba ever make such a claim?

Jon


Love your enemies!

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Portillo
Member (Idle past 2056 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 27 of 29 (628013)
08-06-2011 5:57 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by IamJoseph
07-31-2011 2:31 AM


quote:
Not a single verse therein refers to or connects with the Gospels - a cursory reading of other verses in the same reference will prove that. Sai Baba can be proven as a historical figure, but I was unable to find a single proof of Jesus, even after going dizzy keeping up with the qualifications and manouvers embellished in such searches. I found no evidence of a Roman trial, while a host of minutae topical details of mundane items are seen in Roman archives of the same period.

I never gave up and kept searching. Then I assumed the best proof of Jesus is with the Jews and the Hebrew writings, because these are very reliable. But here too I found nothing, this writing in relation to Jesus also being non-contemporary by 200 years. My conclusion is that unless some hard proof turns up, which I grant is almost not possible considering the time factor already lapsed and the vast number of archeological relics found for periods much older, the entire Gospels story is a fiction. Only the belief is sincere. The most disturbing factor about the Gospels is how it fails to mention the war between Rome and the Jews, whereby over a million sacrificed themselves to uphold their belief: this is akin to the NYTimes not mentioning 9/11 on 9/12.


Jesus fullfilled many prophecies including being crucified and rejected by the Jews, which is the case today. The Gentiles believe in Jesus but Jews dont, this was prophesied. There are more historical documents that verify the New Testament than any other historical document, over 24,000. More evidence than for Caesar crossing the Rubicon. So if the skeptic wants to be skeptical and dismiss the New Testament, he has to wipe out historical documents which have less evidence.

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cavediver
Member (Idle past 1538 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 28 of 29 (628016)
08-06-2011 6:58 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Portillo
08-06-2011 5:57 AM


There are more historical documents that verify the New Testament than any other historical document.

Yes, I was told this lie too, repeatedly, when I was a young Christian. Also the one about how archaeological evidence backed up just about everything in the Old Testament. Believe me, it's all complete rubbish. If you value your faith, don't place it in lies like these. Ask yourself this: if there was little to no historical evidence backing up the OT and NT, would you still believe? If the answer is yes, then great. Stop passing on these great untruths and get on with your Christian life.

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jrchamblee
Junior Member (Idle past 2258 days)
Posts: 14
Joined: 02-08-2012


(1)
Message 29 of 29 (659658)
04-17-2012 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Aurora
04-11-2011 3:43 PM


Christ our god is not a delusion, He is A real being,who Happens to be the smartest god there is.Plus he is over all other gods!!
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