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Author Topic:   Jesus The false prophet
Butterflytyrant
Member (Idle past 4421 days)
Posts: 415
From: Australia
Joined: 06-28-2011


Message 211 of 213 (630250)
08-23-2011 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 208 by IamJoseph
08-23-2011 4:55 AM


Re: CLOWNS TO THE LEFT - JOKERS TO THE RIGHT.
And with the usual, boring predictibility, IamJoseph returns to his stale, unconfirmed bullshit with no evidence and no sources.
You still fail to answer the question.
Let me break this down into the smallest words for you.
You have said that over 70% of the Hebrew Bible has been scientifically verified.
HOW DID YOU GET THIS NUMBER?
>>>70%<<< This one. How did you get this number?
Where are your sources? How did you work out that 70%, not 30%, not 90% but 70%.
PROVE IT!!!
Where did you get 70% from?
lets have another go at your other claims. Another round of me asking you for evidence and sources and you not supplying them, me proving you wrong and you moving the goal posts and you finally, without actually proving anything, declaring victory as if you have put forward a decent arguement.
When you have written a reply to this, go through this checklist.
1. reread to see if it makes sense.
2. reread to see if you are using any of the word i have helped define for you incorrectly.
3. Research your own claims to see if they stand up to even casual scrutiny. Check to see if your facts are actually facts.
This next one is the most important and the biggest problem for you.
4. Add supporting evidence. This will come in the form of a quote from a reputable document with the source attached.
lets try and do this properly.
This is the start of your claim :
The Hebrew bible marks the first recording of a host of factors and is unique:
First of all, you need to confirm what you mean by unique. If something is the first, it is unique until something similar or the same comes along. This would mean that anything that is first, is unique at that time. Would you like to clarify.
You are going to need to supply the date that you can support with evidence that the Hebrew Bible is from. Using the Bible itself as a source is unacceptable. You will need to provide the earliest recording of the Hebrew Bible that includes the thing you are discussing. That way, when I show you something prior to that date, you will know that you are incorrect.
So, things you believe appeared first in the Hebrew Bible.
1. The universe is finite.
How exactly is this phrased in the Bible (include chapter and verse) and how did you reach the conclusion that the verse means the universe is finite. Also, you are assuming that this is correct. Please provide your evidence that the universe is finite. Exactly how far away is its edge? Dont forget your supporting scientific, peer reviewed evidence.
2. The first listing of life form groups [species]
Please provide the chapter and verse that has the word species.
3. The intoruction of the DAY & WEEK.
Plese provide the chapter and verse.
4. The oldest active calendar [5770]
Please provide where this calendar appears in the Bible. Chapter and verse. An supply what you think a calendar is.
5. The first recording of a host of historical items [Mount Ararat, the Tigris, Goshen, Mount Nebo], and ancient nations [Midianites, Moabites, Philistines]; the first kings [Nimrod, Ramseys], the first alphabetical book, the first cencus, the only source for the history of Abraham and Israel.
I will break this one down.
"The first recording of Mount Ararat, the Tigris, Goshen, Mt Nebo"
Supply chapter and verse. Also, it would not be surprising if a book written about guys wandering around the middle east mentions the names of local landmarks.
"The first recording of [snip] ancient nations [Midianites, Moabites, Philistines]"
Again, chapter and verse. Again, a book about these people will probably be the first to mention these people. Tolkiens book was the first one to mention Hobbits, what does this prove? Fuck all. But i would like to test you anyway.
"The first recording of [snip] the first kings[Nimrod, Ramseys],"
again, chapter and verse. Can you be a bit more specific here. Do you mean that the Hebrew Bible was the first book to mention kings, specific kings, these specific kings.
The Hebrew Bible was the first alphabetical book. I have had this discussion with you before. As have others. With each dispute to your claim, you alter the definition of alphabetical or book. So I am going to ask you 3 things. 1. define alphabetical book. and 2. Tell me how a book with an alphabet you approve of is better than gyphs or pictograms etc? and 3. Why is the physical shape of a book better than scrolls, pictogams in walls, words pressed into clay etc? Also, provide the link to the copy of the first Hebrew Bible that fits your description of alphabetical book (and the year it has been dated to).
The Hebrew bible contains "the first cencus"
Provide you definition of census and also provide the chapter and verse that matches your chosen definition.
This last one is pretty funny really.
The Hebrew Bible is "the only source for the history of Abraham and Israel".
So the book that is the history of abraham and israel is the only source for history of abraham and Israel? Do you realise how stupid that sounds. It also argues against your case. If the Hebrew Bible is over 70% proven and is so factual, wouldnt you think that some other writer may have mentioned something about them?
But, this should not be too hard to disprove either.
To disprove that claim, all I need to do is find any other document that relates to Abraham of Israel. Do you really need me to do this or do you realise how stupid your statement was and either concede the point or rephrase.
Now, REMEMBER THE CHECKLIST!!!
Can you do that?
Can you at least give me some sign that you have read the checklist and understand why those things are required?
Edited by Butterflytyrant, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by IamJoseph, posted 08-23-2011 4:55 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by IamJoseph, posted 08-23-2011 10:24 AM Butterflytyrant has not replied

IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3667 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 212 of 213 (630253)
08-23-2011 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by Butterflytyrant
08-23-2011 9:57 AM


Re: CLOWNS TO THE LEFT - JOKERS TO THE RIGHT.
quote:
HOW DID YOU GET THIS NUMBER?
>>>70%<<< This one. How did you get this number?
I responded to this adequately. Over 70% of the Biblical figures have been identified, and except for a few miracle FX, almost everything which is historically portrayed has been backed by archeology. Your anxst of the 70 figure is not credible.
quote:
Using the Bible itself as a source is unacceptable.
It is when backed with hard proof!
quote:
You will need to provide the earliest recording of the Hebrew Bible that includes the thing you are discussing. That way, when I show you something prior to that date, you will know that you are incorrect.
We don't have copies of the Septuagint to its contemporary date [no thanks to Europe!], but we have cross-nation proof this was done in 300 BCE by the Greeks. The dead sea scrolls is dated as upto 250 BCE, but this not mean the bible was created on this date. I would say it was created as per the writings by Moses 3,500 years ago: we have an Egyptian stelle dated 3,500 which affirms parts of the biblical story. Writings was a very expensive and time consuming work in those times, but we know Hebrew writings existed becase we now have proof of King David [The Tel Dan find], and he wrote the psalms 3000 years ago. The original would have been destroyed in the Babylon destruction.
quote:
1. The universe is finite.
How exactly is this phrased in the Bible (include chapter and verse) and how did you reach the conclusion that the verse means the universe is finite.
Genesis opening verse; first 3 words: IN THE BEGINNING. The entire verse is open to no other reading than the heavens and the earth [universe] had a beginning. This is my reference.
quote:
2. The first listing of life form groups [species]
Please provide the chapter and verse that has the word species.
Its only the most known writings on earth:
Ch1/V9-31. The seperation is by terrain and habitat - the most fundamental ones.
quote:
3. The intoruction of the DAY & WEEK.
These are the first recording of day and week:
And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
Duet 16/9 Seven weeks shalt thou number unto thee; from the time the sickle is first put to the standing corn shalt thou begin to number seven weeks.
quote:
4. The oldest active calendar [5770]
Please provide where this calendar appears in the Bible. Chapter and verse. An supply what you think a calendar is.
It begins after the 6 creation days. The first Saturday occured 5750 years ago, and all events since then are diarised, as seen in any Hebrew newspaper. This is the oldest active calendar and the most accurate one.
quote:
5. The first recording of a host of historical items [Mount Ararat, the Tigris, Goshen, Mount Nebo], and ancient nations [Midianites, Moabites, Philistines]; the first kings [Nimrod, Ramseys], the first alphabetical book, the first cencus, the only source for the history of Abraham and Israel.
I will break this one down.
"The first recording of Mount Ararat, the Tigris, Goshen, Mt Nebo"
Supply chapter and verse. Also, it would not be surprising if a book written about guys wandering around the middle east mentions the names of local landmarks.
You are abusing this previlige! Pls prove your names second alphabet?
quote:
Provide you definition of census and also provide the chapter and verse that matches your chosen definition.
Look for it!
quote:
This last one is pretty funny really.
The Hebrew Bible is "the only source for the history of Abraham and Israel".
So the book that is the history of abraham and israel is the only source for history of abraham and Israel? Do you realise how stupid that sounds.
Why!? Its a fact.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Butterflytyrant, posted 08-23-2011 9:57 AM Butterflytyrant has not replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 213 of 213 (630258)
08-23-2011 11:39 AM


Topic Shot, Closing it Down
BFT and IAJ, take your personal battle to the Great Debate.
Keep it out of the threads.
This is a warning. If I catch you two doing this same dance in another thread, you both will be suspended for one week.
AdminPD

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