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Author Topic:   Subjective Evidence of Gods
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 115 of 468 (625630)
07-24-2011 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Straggler
07-24-2011 5:06 PM


Re: Track Record Isn't the Point
Straggler writes:
But if we have a highly evidenced naturalistic answer for why something is as it is (human altruism, human invention of and belief in gods, morality or whatever else) why would we ever invoke a supernatural answer?
Because that makes us feel that much more special? I mean, a being that could literally create whatever it wants, chose to create us as the pinnacle of its creation. That's pretty special, innit?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Straggler, posted 07-24-2011 5:06 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Straggler, posted 07-24-2011 5:16 PM Huntard has replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 117 of 468 (625633)
07-24-2011 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Straggler
07-24-2011 5:16 PM


Re: Track Record Isn't the Point
Straggler writes:
Sure.
But is "what makes us feel special" a reliable indicator of reality?
Nope.
If not - How can it qualify as a form of evidence?
Well, as subjective evidence it might. I'm not entirely sure what "subjective evidence" even is though. Evidence that means one thing to someone and another to someone else?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Straggler, posted 07-24-2011 5:16 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Straggler, posted 07-24-2011 5:31 PM Huntard has replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 119 of 468 (625637)
07-24-2011 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Straggler
07-24-2011 5:31 PM


Re: Track Record Isn't the Point
Straggler writes:
If by "evidence" you simply mean a reason for belief then I guess so.
But on that basis a liking for the colour pink is a reason to believe in the actual existence of an Immaterial Pink Unicorn.
If that's what we're going with then sure, I guess that could be the case.
It seems to be reasons for belief as long as those reasosns don't extend to what advocates of such evidence don't actually believe in.
Right.... So really, anything goes then? Well, that's kinda pointless. Is there a definition to be found anywhere, or could the supporters of this "subjective evidence" provide one, preferably with some examples?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Straggler, posted 07-24-2011 5:31 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Straggler, posted 07-24-2011 5:40 PM Huntard has not replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 121 of 468 (625640)
07-24-2011 5:47 PM


What is "subjective evidence" anyway?
Humtard in Message 119 writes:
Is there a definition to be found anywhere, or could the supporters of this "subjective evidence" provide one, preferably with some examples?
Well, supporters of subjective evidence, anything to enlighten me by?

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by GDR, posted 07-24-2011 8:39 PM Huntard has replied
 Message 125 by AdminPD, posted 07-25-2011 6:55 AM Huntard has not replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 134 of 468 (625771)
07-25-2011 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by GDR
07-24-2011 8:39 PM


Re: What is "subjective evidence" anyway?
GDR writes:
We all come to our own conclusions about the existence or non-existence of god(s) and we all come to those conclusions based on subjective evidence.
You can take as subjective evidence the fact that we exist, that we are conscious, that we recognize some human behaviours as bad or good, that we can love, hate, forgive or not forgive have mercy or be cruel etc.
It is I agree possible to subjectively reject all of that and come to the conclusion that the material world as we perceive it is all there is. I have just come to a different conclusion.
Hope this answers your question.
Well it certainly is an answer, but you're basically saying that it can be whatever you want it to be. An amazing moment in your life, the kitten that's so cute, the colour red, that you think is so beautiful. Everything and anything can be "subjective evidence" it seems. Meaning that it is absolutely useless to determine truth, meaning that it's not really evidence at all. It just makes you feel good, like I thought would be the real reason.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by GDR, posted 07-24-2011 8:39 PM GDR has not replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 252 of 468 (630562)
08-26-2011 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 251 by Chuck77
08-26-2011 6:58 AM


Re: Detecting Intelligent Agency Where There Is None
Chuck77 writes:
Wonderful. You can start by picking up a Bible (some subjective evidence for god(s) and test it out.
Also there are many books written by wonderful christians that know this truth. Pick a few up. Prayer is good too. Some books will help you pray in a way that is like you were talking to your parents. It's easy. Church too, that's a good place for subjective evidence. Lot's of people to validate this truth.
You have your hands full for the weekend. SONday find a good morning service and let me know what the Pastor talked about.
Muslim down the street writes:
Wonderful. You can start by picking up a Qu'ran (some subjective evidence for god(s) and test it out.
Also there are many books written by wonderful Muslims that know this truth. Pick a few up. Prayer is good too. Some books will help you pray in a way that is like you were talking to your parents. It's easy. Mosque too, that's a good place for subjective evidence. Lot's of people to validate this truth.
You have your hands full for the weekend. SOMEday find a good morning service and let me know what the Imam talked about.
Now, which one to choose, and why?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by Chuck77, posted 08-26-2011 6:58 AM Chuck77 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by IamJoseph, posted 08-26-2011 9:26 AM Huntard has replied
 Message 411 by Chuck77, posted 09-01-2011 12:14 AM Huntard has replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 255 of 468 (630572)
08-26-2011 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 254 by IamJoseph
08-26-2011 9:26 AM


Re: Detecting Intelligent Agency Where There Is None
IamJoseph writes:
Why buy retail when you can get it wholsesale, direct from the factory owner?
I'm sorry, what? What are you talking about?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by IamJoseph, posted 08-26-2011 9:26 AM IamJoseph has not replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 320 of 468 (631093)
08-30-2011 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 318 by Coragyps
08-30-2011 10:27 AM


Coragyps writes:
I do. I'm almost certain that Poseidon never did doo-squat to interfere with Trojans vs. Athenians.
'Twas 'gainst the Spartans that those brave Trojans did fight.
For Poor Helen was taken by wicked Paris from the Spartan King, who could do nothing, despite his might....
Although, there probably were some Athenians there too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 318 by Coragyps, posted 08-30-2011 10:27 AM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 327 by Coragyps, posted 08-30-2011 12:00 PM Huntard has not replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 414 of 468 (631434)
09-01-2011 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 411 by Chuck77
09-01-2011 12:14 AM


Re: Subjective evidence apperantly not so subjective to some
Chuck77 writes:
Now, your project is to provide the same, only in reverse. For example, Christians converting to Islam.
Well, I've got this:
quote:
CAIR chairman Nihad Awad told the Saudi paper 'Ukaz that "34,000 Americans have converted to Islam following the events of September 11, and this is the highest rate reached in the U.S. since Islam arrived there."
Converting to Islam in the U.S. Following 9/11 , 34000 embraced Islam !, why they converted to Islam
For starters. I'm sure I could dig up more. Again, who to believe?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 411 by Chuck77, posted 09-01-2011 12:14 AM Chuck77 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 416 by Chuck77, posted 09-01-2011 3:51 AM Huntard has not replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 426 of 468 (631630)
09-02-2011 4:52 AM
Reply to: Message 425 by Chuck77
09-02-2011 4:26 AM


Re: subjective evidence overload
Chuck77 writes:
I know! Isn't it great. Talk about overload of subjective evidence. Although there are MANY more muslims converting to christianity than the other way around I think it says something regardless don't you?
Really? Got any evidence to back up that statement? Not that it matters, those are just people being misled by satan, or so the muslim down the street tells me.
Edited by Huntard, : Did quote wrong, had hangover

This message is a reply to:
 Message 425 by Chuck77, posted 09-02-2011 4:26 AM Chuck77 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 427 by Chuck77, posted 09-02-2011 5:35 AM Huntard has not replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(2)
Message 445 of 468 (632776)
09-10-2011 3:30 AM
Reply to: Message 444 by Chuck77
09-10-2011 3:22 AM


Re: Straggler is always right every time eternity infinity
Chuck77 writes:
Well then I can't help you. If you can't see that muslims converting over the Christianity much more than Christians converting to Islam means something surley I can'y help you.
It would seem whatever subjective evidence they are coming across, favors Christianity.
Well, I had another talk with the Muslim down the street, and according to him, it's not evidence favouring Christianity, it's evidence favouring the power of Satan, for leading all those believers in the true Muslim faith down the rabbit hole of the lies of Christianity.
Now, again, who should I believe, you, who claim it is god finally reaching the Muslims, or the Muslim down the street, who says it's Satan, misleading all the Muslims?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 444 by Chuck77, posted 09-10-2011 3:22 AM Chuck77 has not replied

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