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Author Topic:   ICANT'S position in the creation debate
Taq
Member
Posts: 7034
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 676 of 687 (603086)
02-02-2011 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 674 by ICANT
02-02-2011 5:05 PM


Re: ICANT'S POSITION
Draw a circle on a piece of paper put the numbers of a clock on it. Then take two objects and place one of them on 12. Take the other and make a complete revolution around the one on 12. Then move the one on 12 to the number 1 and repeat the process and continue doing so for each number until you return to 12.

Now if you can you explain to me how you can accomplish this feat without the object that stayed on the numbers making a circle around the object that was orbiting around it I will retract my statement. "The sun does revolve around the earth."

At no point does the object on the clock numbers make a circle around the other object.

To use another analogy, let's say that you have a rock on the end of a string. You start twirling the rock around your body. You now claim that it is actually your body that is going about the rock. Of course, people think you are a bit strange. You then explain that if you spun the rock around your head for 24 hours that the Earth would take you in a circular path which means that your cirlced aroud the rock. Now people think you are really nuts, and for good reason.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 674 by ICANT, posted 02-02-2011 5:05 PM ICANT has acknowledged this reply

  
Aurora
Junior Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 13
From: India
Joined: 12-09-2010


(1)
Message 677 of 687 (603265)
02-03-2011 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 674 by ICANT
02-02-2011 5:05 PM


Re: ICANT'S POSITION
Hi ICANT,
ICANT writes:

Now as to how can the sun make one revolution around the earth in its journey.

Draw a circle on a piece of paper put the numbers of a clock on it. Then take two objects and place one of them on 12. Take the other and make a complete revolution around the one on 12. Then move the one on 12 to the number 1 and repeat the process and continue doing so for each number until you return to 12.

Now if you can you explain to me how you can accomplish this feat without the object that stayed on the numbers making a circle around the object that was orbiting around it I will retract my statement. "The sun does revolve around the earth."

Assuming you are serious, I'll take your illustration. The orbit of the object (sun) that stayed on the numbers being much longer it takes relatively longer time (225 million years) to complete one revolution whereas the orbit of the other object (earth) being shorter it takes shorter time(1 year) to revolve around the object on the number (sun). Since the other object(earth) revolves around the object on the number(sun) along its movement around the numbers(galaxy), we cannot say the object on the number (sun) revolves around the other object (earth). Remember 'to revolve' means to orbit around a central point or an object.

The analogy drawn by Taq is also very clear.

From my understanding the only possibility is only if the earth revolves around the sun extremely slow or that the sun revolves extremely fast, so that during the sun's revolution the earth is still within its orbit (A to B in the picture).

ICANT writes:

I was not referring to the faith of the believers in the Bible.

I was referring in the faith of those who trust in a science that has no answer for how the universe and life began to exist. If you don't know how they began to exist you can not be certain how we got from there to here.

Sorry, as I was reading the last sentence of the summation of your position and I presume it to be the faith of the Bible believer. If its about the faith of those who trust in science, then I think you have been shown the evidences.

ICANT writes:

But I do believe the Bible when properly understood has no problems with science except the how of the begining to exist of the universe and life.

I believe the Bible has many nice stories, poetic beauty, words of wisdom, etc, but the myriad of miracles are problems with science.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 674 by ICANT, posted 02-02-2011 5:05 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 678 by arachnophilia, posted 02-03-2011 5:21 PM Aurora has not yet responded
 Message 679 by ICANT, posted 02-03-2011 8:26 PM Aurora has responded

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 229 days)
Posts: 9068
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 678 of 687 (603305)
02-03-2011 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 677 by Aurora
02-03-2011 2:46 PM


Re: ICANT'S POSITION
hi aurora, welcome to the fray.

i've seen some WTF kind of stuff from ICANT in my time, but this is certainly a new one to me. i mean, if i were going to go "sun revolves around the earth for the sake pedantry" route, i would have gone much more direct. i would have pointed out that a system of two bodies technically orbit each other, or rather, a (bary)central point located between the two bodies' centers of gravity at a position proportional to their masses.

of course, the sun is so incredibly massive that the barycenter of the entire solar system is always very near the sun, and sometimes inside it.

yup, our sun wobbles.


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 677 by Aurora, posted 02-03-2011 2:46 PM Aurora has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 681 by Son, posted 02-04-2011 9:55 AM arachnophilia has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5625
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 679 of 687 (603328)
02-03-2011 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 677 by Aurora
02-03-2011 2:46 PM


Re: ICANT'S POSITION
Hi Aurora,

Aurora writes:

Remember 'to revolve' means to orbit around a central point or an object.

I said: Now if you can you explain to me how you can accomplish this feat without the object that stayed on the numbers making a circle around the object that was orbiting around it I will retract my statement.

I did not say revolve I said make a circle around the orbiting object.

Now either the sun traverses around the Milkyway or it does not.

Since the earth is in the Milkyway wouldn't the sun have to make a circle around it?

If not it seems like the sun is then pushing the earth around the Milkyway.

Then it could be a myth as no one has hung around 250 million years to make sure it does.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 677 by Aurora, posted 02-03-2011 2:46 PM Aurora has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 680 by crashfrog, posted 02-03-2011 8:28 PM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 682 by Aurora, posted 02-04-2011 3:06 PM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 683 by Taq, posted 02-04-2011 5:03 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 680 of 687 (603329)
02-03-2011 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 679 by ICANT
02-03-2011 8:26 PM


Re: ICANT'S POSITION
I did not say revolve I said make a circle around the orbiting object.

That's what "revolve" means.

Since the earth is in the Milkyway wouldn't the sun have to make a circle around it?

No.

I guess geometry is another subject beyond your intellectual grasp?

If not it seems like the sun is then pushing the earth around the Milkyway.

Well, dragging, more like. By its gravity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 679 by ICANT, posted 02-03-2011 8:26 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
Son
Member (Idle past 1326 days)
Posts: 346
From: France,Paris
Joined: 03-11-2009


Message 681 of 687 (603379)
02-04-2011 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 678 by arachnophilia
02-03-2011 5:21 PM


Actually, (it's off topic for this thread but I didn't know where to say it) it seems Aurora has started participation in this forum 2 months ago. It seems (s)he proposed a topic but admins missed it. Since it seemed rather interesting I think Aurora could try to repropose the topic. Even if admins reject a topic, they usually tell you why, if they didn't tell you and didn't promote it, I think it means they just missed it. (I'm not an admin myself though).

Edited by Son, : No reason given.

Edited by Son, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 678 by arachnophilia, posted 02-03-2011 5:21 PM arachnophilia has not yet responded

    
Aurora
Junior Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 13
From: India
Joined: 12-09-2010


Message 682 of 687 (603476)
02-04-2011 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 679 by ICANT
02-03-2011 8:26 PM


Re: ICANT'S POSITION
Hi ICANT,

ICANT writes:

I said: Now if you can you explain to me how you can accomplish this feat without the object that stayed on the numbers making a circle around the object that was orbiting around it I will retract my statement.

Please See the previous illustration again: The object (red) on the number do not make a circle around the object (blue) that was orbiting around it because the object (blue) is always moving away from the orbit of the object (red) on the number. You cannot circle an object which is constantly moving away from your orbit.

ICANT writes:

I did not say revolve I said make a circle around the orbiting object.

Sorry ICANT, that's Worse. To make 'a circle' around the orbiting object, the orbiting object needs to be at the centre. Remember 'a circle' is the locus of all points equidistant from a central point.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 679 by ICANT, posted 02-03-2011 8:26 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7034
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 683 of 687 (603503)
02-04-2011 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 679 by ICANT
02-03-2011 8:26 PM


Re: ICANT'S POSITION
Since the earth is in the Milkyway wouldn't the sun have to make a circle around it?

No.

If not it seems like the sun is then pushing the earth around the Milkyway.

Both are moving through the gravity well of the galaxy just as the Earth and the Moon are moving through the gravity well of the Sun. The Earth does not pull the Moon about the Sun. Both are caught in the gravity well of the Sun.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 679 by ICANT, posted 02-03-2011 8:26 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
merrytess 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2154 days)
Posts: 3
From: *Newly registered users*
Joined: 05-20-2011


Message 684 of 687 (616336)
05-20-2011 9:21 PM


The Big Bang Theory: Excellent Show!
.

Edited by Admin, : No reason given.


    
wangyin 
Suspended Junior Member (Idle past 2131 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 07-19-2011


Message 685 of 687 (624775)
07-19-2011 11:53 PM


re:
Therefore Science has not proved God do not create the universe and existence as introduced in Genesis. to ensure that account has not been verified false.

Now if I am mistaken concerning the medical proof please present it.

{Spam links deleted - Adminnemooseus}

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : See above.


    
Tryannasapien Rex
Junior Member (Idle past 2095 days)
Posts: 21
Joined: 02-15-2006


Message 686 of 687 (630488)
08-25-2011 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by ICANT
08-22-2009 12:26 PM


Re: Snatching Defeat from the jaws of Victory
deleted

Edited by Tryannasapien Rex, : deleted


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by ICANT, posted 08-22-2009 12:26 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
trisha 
Suspended Junior Member (Idle past 2088 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 09-01-2011


Message 687 of 687 (631466)
09-01-2011 6:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by ICANT
08-21-2009 10:48 PM


In his work English Men of Science: Their Nature and Nurture, which discussed the influence of genetics and environment on a person's development and which was originally published in 1874, Francis Galton, a second or half-cousin to Charles Darwin stated: "[Nature and nurture are] a convenient jingle of words, for it separates under two distinct heads the innumerable elements of which personality is composed. Nature is all that a man brings with himself into the world; nurture is every influence that affects him after his birth."

funny photos

Edited by Admin, : Spamify link.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by ICANT, posted 08-21-2009 10:48 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
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