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Member (Idle past 4170 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: News on Religion in Our Goverments | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8546 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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nothing about labeling the church itself as a citizen. Good point. I use a broad, too broad for this discussion, daffynition of "citizen". Often, to me, the church is the pastor and the pastor is the church. The bishops in Arti's story are citizens, not their incorporated (or LP or LLP or LLLP) organizations. The "church" does not have a vote. But the priests do (unless they're in jail for child molestation which is very few since they seem to get transferred to other areas and placed in charge of some other Boys Choir before they can be prosecuted).
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4254 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
alright thanks.
I think it is more the directly intrusive things that churches do, like force involuntary prayer on a captured audience of kids or sailors, or push to have pro-creationist teachings included in the science curriculum. What churches do that? Glad I'm Roman Catholic, we don't do that crap. We have our own PRIVATE schools to indoctrinate our own people, and we are not creationists to begin with, must be those crazy Protestants. Everyone should be worried of the Sola Scriptura fanatics.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8546 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
Glad I'm Roman Catholic ... Ahh, thus the "Dislike" on my message. Understood. Off topic, I know, but you guys really gotta do something about those boy-buggering priests.
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4254 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
not sure what can be done; and its a small minority, so to insinuate that as if its all over the church and every priest is suspect, is what I have a problem with, and why I hit the dislike button. You can type the most logical well thought out post, but that snarky off-color jibe at the end is what ruined everything.
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8
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Hi Artemis,
not sure what can be done I dunno. Perhaps they could call the police? Instead of covering it up and then protecting and enabling the abuser by moving him on to new parish and a new set of victims. As the Catholic Church has done in the past. I think that the main point to be understood here is not so much that abuse took place, but that the Church did so little to stop it and in fact made it worse. They should have called in the appropriate authorities, but instead, they chose to cover their own sanctimonious asses. I am angry about the abuse, but I am fucking livid about the cover up and I think that a lot of Catholics feel the same way. Thousands of sincere Catholics placed that which was most precious to them, their children, into the Church's care and the Church rewarded that trust with utter contempt. Mutate and SurviveOn two occasions I have been asked, — "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 827 days) Posts: 3193 Joined:
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and I think that a lot of Catholics feel the same way. Yea....the ones directly effected. The rest say "well, it wasn't MY church...." Kinda like Artie is saying...."Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square
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fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4170 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined:
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quote: Full story... I think Bloomberg made the right choice. "No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten." Hunter S. Thompson Ad astra per aspera Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione. |
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 310 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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not sure what can be done; and its a small minority, so to insinuate that as if its all over the church and every priest is suspect, is what I have a problem with, and why I hit the dislike button. But the Church, as an organization, is complicit. That's the problem. Instead of cleaning its house, the Church has merely whitewashed it. If it was (as I hope it is) a "small minority", and the Church, becoming aware of the problem, had done something about it apart from try to hush it up, then it wouldn't be a scandal against the Church as such. Instead of shooting the messenger, surely there's something lay Catholics such as yourself can do to urge changes in this purely administrative practice of the Church? If you don't like hearing people complain about this stuff, then do something to make sure it doesn't happen again.
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4254 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
Granny Magda writes: I think that the main point to be understood here is not so much that abuse took place, but that the Church did so little to stop it and in fact made it worse. They should have called in the appropriate authorities, but instead, they chose to cover their own sanctimonious asses. I got no problem with that, my problem was the stereotyping of an entire demographic (and the largest Christian church on the planet Earth), based on the actions of a few. If I get robbed by a black man and call all blacks robbers then I would be called a racist. But if you make similar remarks about Catholics based on the actions of a few, then THAT is different!?! I don’t have a double standard, and I won’t allow you to have one either.
hoah212002 writes: Yea....the ones directly effected. The rest say "well, it wasn't MY church...."Kinda like Artie is saying.... Not true at all. Catholics are very upset, discusted, and angry about it. Even in very faithful nations like Ireland. It’s a big deal.I said nothing to the contrary of that, only that AZPaul3 was slandering 1.147 BILLION people, on the actions of a few, and no-one cares. I was just pointing out another horrible double standard that exists here at EvC. fearandloathing writes: I think Bloomberg made the right choice. Why? I think Bloomberg sucks, and NYC would be better without him. Have you been to ground zero in the last 10 years? I have been twice once in 2005 and once in 2010. Both times the ground zero site has been blocked off and under construction, there really isn’t much to see. If you do want to see something then you had to go to the makeshift memorial and 9/11 museum, across the street (located at 209 broadway). It’s the trinity wall street church (St. Paul’s). I think it’s sad and rude that NYC would accept help from the church in a time of need, and then 10 years later when the time was to commemorate the event, the church is left out. F NYC. Well that’s how the left is I guess.
Dr Adequate writes: Instead of shooting the messenger, do you consider racists the messenger, or should the blacks get their shit together? Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.
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fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4170 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined:
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Why? I think Bloomberg sucks, and NYC would be better without him. Have you been to ground zero in the last 10 years? I have been twice once in 2005 and once in 2010. Both times the ground zero site has been blocked off and under construction, there really isn’t much to see. If you do want to see something then you had to go to the makeshift memorial and 9/11 museum, across the street (located at 209 broadway). It’s the trinity wall street church (St. Paul’s). I think it’s sad and rude that NYC would accept help from the church in a time of need, and then 10 years later when the time was to commemorate the event, the church is left out. F NYC. Well that’s how the left is I guess. What does this have to do with Bloomberg not allowing prayers to be made aloud by clergy? I haven't been to NY in 14 years or so, hope you enjoyed your visits, but what does this have to do with Bloombergs decision? There will be several moments of silence so anyone in attendance can say a SILENT prayer or just remember. How is this bad? Do you just want to argue?"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten." Hunter S. Thompson Ad astra per aspera Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 827 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
I've noticed you do this on several occasions: if you want to reply to numerous posts....reply to numerous posts, don't lump them all into the same reply.
"I'll do what I want, don't tell me what to do" in 3...2...1...."Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square
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fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4170 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined: |
I think it’s sad and rude that NYC would accept help from the church in a time of need, and then 10 years later when the time was to commemorate the event, the church is left out. F NYC. Well that’s how the left is I guess. I think you might be missing the point, in years past there has been no prayers allowed by any religious group, why start now, how do you choose which ones? Can a Muslim or Jewish prayer also be said, how about a statement from an atheist? Did NYC ask the church for help? Do you know that no Muslim organization offered help or did not help?"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten." Hunter S. Thompson Ad astra per aspera Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 310 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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do you consider racists the messenger, or should the blacks get their shit together? No and yes, respectively --- racists are jerks, and everyone should get their shit together. But where your analogy breaks down is that unlike the Roman Catholic Church blacks do not constitute a hierarchical institution with the ability to dismiss or unfrock its members. If they did, I would be asking similar questions. I'd be saying --- why doesn't the Chief Black (the Blope, the Blontiff) give orders to his Blishops to deblackinate any black known to them to be a crack dealer and turn him in to the police instead of just moving him to to a different "turf" where the police don't know him? If they were an institution, and the institution was covering up and protecting its venal members, I'd be criticizing it like I criticize the R.C.C. And for the same reason, when I do criticize the R.C.C. I am not saying a single word against Catholics in general as though they were the blacks of your analogy; nothing I say is an imputation against you or my brother-in-law or any other Catholic not personally complicit; it's the institution that I'm criticizing. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4254 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
fearandloathing writes: What does this have to do with Bloomberg not allowing prayers to be made aloud by clergy? Obviously it had nothing to do with Bloomberg’s decision and that is the problem.
hoah212002 writes: I've noticed you do this on several occasions: if you want to reply to numerous posts....reply to numerous posts, don't lump them all into the same reply."I'll do what I want, don't tell me what to do" in 3...2...1.... I’ll wait for ADIN or MODS to make that call, I think it’s better to have less responses than more responses, as far as being polite/respectful to the site and the people that run it, and the people that use the site. Also, this FIB doesn’t take advice from cheese-heads, ever.
fearandloathing writes: I think you might be missing the point, in years past there has been no prayers allowed by any religious group, why start now, how do you choose which ones? Can a Muslim or Jewish prayer also be said, how about a statement from an atheist?
In years past what are you talking about? In years past the museum, and memorial have been at an Episcopal Church.I would let the Episcopalians lead the prayer, as they have been invested sine the 1st plane hit. I don’t care what prayers are said, and who says them. Did NYC ask the church for help? Do you know that no Muslim organization offered help or did not help?
It’s not really charity if you have to ask. I don’t know.
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 827 days) Posts: 3193 Joined:
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Also, this FIB doesn’t take advice from cheese-heads, ever. Northern IL born and raised, bitch. I'm no god damn cheese head. What's also funny is how you've not said word one about the firemen or PD being allowed either. Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given."Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square
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