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Author Topic:   News on Religion in Our Goverments
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 46 of 136 (631726)
09-02-2011 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Artemis Entreri
09-02-2011 3:56 PM


Re: Does this count? No, not really.
AZPaul3 was slandering 1.147 BILLION people.
No, it's not "slander" when it's true.
The problem is this:
- Incidents have taken place in numerous countries on multiple contenents. This is world-wide problem in your church.
- Incidents have been occurring for many decades.
- The only reason these surface is when the victims lose their fear of the church and come forward, by the dozens.
- In every case I can recall the church hierarchy, all the way to Rome, sought to cover up the incidents, move the priests to other locations and circumvent local authority.
In any other organization this would be considered a systemic problem with the organization as a whole.
And so it is for your church.
You are a catholic. Whether you care to acknowledge it or not this "systemic" problem that has plagued your church for generations is a reflection on you.
You need to face this. You need to stop this. God knows your church leaders are not going to.
Edited by AZPaul3, : clarity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-02-2011 3:56 PM Artemis Entreri has seen this message but not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 47 of 136 (631727)
09-02-2011 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Artemis Entreri
09-02-2011 4:49 PM


Re: Does this count? No, not really.
"In years past what are you talking about?
quote:
The mayor's office says the annual event focuses on relatives of Sept. 11 victims and has never included clergy invocations
Try reading, it rocks...
Do you even read the post or link? ANNUAL event.
Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-02-2011 4:49 PM Artemis Entreri has seen this message but not replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4228 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 48 of 136 (631728)
09-02-2011 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Dr Adequate
09-02-2011 4:39 PM


Re: Does this count? No, not really.
look d00d my beef wasn't with people like you, it was with the haters like AZPaul3. I only took it up with you when you inferred that I was shooting the messenger. I wasn't shooting the messenger, I was defending against the racist. I understand your beef is explicitly with the church organization, and that is fine. don't talk no shit, there won't be no shit. he was talking shit.
I guess this is Carte Blanche to criticize the NAACP all I want, and not be called a racist here? since they are an organization and not individual people, right?
I'll take it as a yes from you and everyone who likes with your post, until I hear otherwise.
I guess I can criticize the unions, without criticizing the workers.
I guess I can criticize Democrats without criticizing the people who vote democrat.
I guess I can criticize your queen without saying a word against you, or the Canadians.
I guess I can criticize the people who put in Gay Legislation, without criticizing the gay people.
ok, that seems fair to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-02-2011 4:39 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-02-2011 5:25 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4228 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 49 of 136 (631730)
09-02-2011 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by hooah212002
09-02-2011 4:53 PM


Re: Does this count? No, not really.
hoah212002 writes:
Northern IL born and raised, bitch. I'm no god damn cheese head.
LOL. So Ill myself. I L L.
What's also funny is how you've not said word one about the firemen or PD being allowed either.
I don’t get that one.
fearandloathing writes:
Do you even read the post or link? ANNUAL event.
Yeah I read it. Sorry I didn’t memorize ever single fucking line.
Because it’s a big event, and they want representation this year, that is why.
AZPaul3 writes:
You are a catholic. Whether you care to acknowledge it or not this "systemic" problem that has plagued your church for generations is a reflection on you.
You need to face this. You need to stop this. God knows your church leaders are not going to.
Are you advocating Vigilantism now? After an Ad hominem against billions of people, its hard for me to follow your logic. Please explain.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by hooah212002, posted 09-02-2011 4:53 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by fearandloathing, posted 09-02-2011 5:23 PM Artemis Entreri has seen this message but not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 50 of 136 (631732)
09-02-2011 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Artemis Entreri
09-02-2011 5:16 PM


Re: Does this count? No, not really.
Yeah I read it. Sorry I didn’t memorize ever single fucking line.
Kick rocks, all you want to do do is argue, not discuss.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-02-2011 5:16 PM Artemis Entreri has seen this message but not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(5)
Message 51 of 136 (631733)
09-02-2011 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Artemis Entreri
09-02-2011 5:06 PM


Re: Does this count? No, not really.
I guess this is Carte Blanche to criticize the NAACP all I want, and not be called a racist here?
Yes, especially if their employees sexually abuse children and the people at the top know about it and cover it up. How would pointing that out and condemning it be a slur on black people in general? If you have information to that effect, and make it public, I for one will acknowledge you as a public benefactor rather than condemning you as racist.
I guess I can criticize the unions, without criticizing the workers.
That depends on what you mean. The workers in the unions have, after all, some measure of control over what the unions do.
I guess I can criticize Democrats without criticizing the people who vote democrat.
Well, they don't have to vote Democrat; whereas black people have to be black whatever NAACP does. If the Democrats start herding Jews into gas chambers then to criticize that would be to implicitly criticize people who continue to vote for them; and rightly so.
I guess I can criticize your queen without saying a word against you, or the Canadians.
Certainly. Knock yourself out. When did I ask to have a monarch?
I guess I can criticize the people who put in Gay Legislation, without criticizing the gay people.
That depends what you're criticizing them for. If it's for being gay, for example, then we might have a problem.
look d00d my beef wasn't with people like you, it was with the haters like AZPaul3.
Well, don't "you guys" as he put it, have some measure of responsibility? You could speak up for reform; or you could leave the Church. Or you could wait for someone else to agitate for reform, fair enough, we can't all shoulder all the problems of the world, but while you wait for someone else to sort this out, you could also not waste any effort complaining about the "haters" who suggest that someone should.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-02-2011 5:06 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-02-2011 5:51 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4228 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 52 of 136 (631741)
09-02-2011 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Dr Adequate
09-02-2011 5:25 PM


Re: Does this count? No, not really.
fearandloathing writes:
Kick rocks, all you want to do do is argue, not discuss.
I’ll take that as you giving up.
Dr Adequate writes:
That depends what you're criticizing them for. If it's for being gay, for example, then we might have a problem.
I just put that one in there for kicks. I know how things are around here, and I just wanted a quote from you on it.
RULE 1 at evcforum.net: Anyone who disagrees with a pro-gay legislation is a homophobe, a bigot, and hates gay people regardless of what they post in their responses. I have experienced it, I know.
Thanks for your reply but I don’t believe you.
Well, don't "you guys" as he put it, have some measure of responsibility? You could speak up for reform; or you could leave the Church. Or you could wait for someone else to agitate for reform, fair enough, we can't all shoulder all the problems of the world, but while you wait for someone else to sort this out, you could also not waste any effort complaining about the "haters" who suggest that someone should.
As you said earlier it’s a hierarchy, and it’s not an elected one. Speaking up really doesn’t do anything. I have left the church before, but I came back, the only protestants I could handle where the Anglicans (I actually quite liked them), but they were too close to the original not to come back IMHO. All the others were downright crazy, with their ant-gay, anti-science, anti-beer, anti-everything that is not praising the lord 24/7, and they were to much into a book that is extremely contradictory and ambiguous IMHO. So I am really not sure what I could to the help the situation outside of pray for better things. In fact when I say the Rosary I usually say it for this very issue. I go right past Jesus, and tell his mom.
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-02-2011 5:25 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-02-2011 6:11 PM Artemis Entreri has seen this message but not replied
 Message 54 by fearandloathing, posted 09-02-2011 6:12 PM Artemis Entreri has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 53 of 136 (631745)
09-02-2011 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Artemis Entreri
09-02-2011 5:51 PM


Re: Does this count? No, not really.
RULE 1 at evcforum.net: Anyone who disagrees with a pro-gay legislation is a homophobe, a bigot, and hates gay people regardless of what they post in their responses. I have experienced it, I know.
You asked about the legislators, not the legislation. If someone is against legislation giving gay people equal rights, I would have to think they had some sort of agenda against giving gay people equal rights. And then I'd wonder if they decided which groups shouldn't have equal rights just by flipping a coin, or if there was something else that led them to pick gay people.
As you said earlier it’s a hierarchy, and it’s not an elected one. Speaking up really doesn’t do anything. I have left the church before, but I came back, the only protestants I could handle where the Anglicans (I actually quite liked them), but they were too close to the original not to come back IMHO. All the others were downright crazy, with their ant-gay, anti-science, anti-beer, anti-everything that is not praising the lord 24/7, and they were to much into a book that is extremely contradictory and ambiguous IMHO. So I am really not sure what I could to the help the situation outside of pray for better things. In fact when I say the Rosary I usually say it for this very issue. I go right past Jesus, and tell his mom.
Well, I really don't know what the Catholic laity can do about this apart from stopping being the Catholic laity ... which might well go unnoticed. Perhaps the media will have better luck ...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-02-2011 5:51 PM Artemis Entreri has seen this message but not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 54 of 136 (631746)
09-02-2011 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Artemis Entreri
09-02-2011 5:51 PM


Re: Does this count? No, not really.
I’ll take that as you giving up.
No, not at all, there just is not anything to discuss, I could be wrong.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-02-2011 5:51 PM Artemis Entreri has not replied

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 55 of 136 (631895)
09-04-2011 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Artemis Entreri
09-02-2011 3:56 PM


Re: Does this count? No, not really.
my problem was the stereotyping of an entire demographic (and the largest Christian church on the planet Earth), based on the actions of a few.
AZPaul3 was merely engaging in legitimate satire. At no point did he say or even imply that all Catholics, or even all Catholic priests are rapists. You are being over-sensitive, especially in light of the fact that you yourself have told some rather close-to-the-knuckle jokes around here before now.
The Catholic church has invited this kind of satire. It has only itself to blame. If you don't like it, blame the church for creating this shit storm.
If I get robbed by a black man and call all blacks robbers then I would be called a racist. But if you make similar remarks about Catholics based on the actions of a few, then THAT is different!?!
I think that Dr A answered this better than I could have in his reply, as well as coining the word "deblackinate". Nice. I want a deblackinator ray gun and I want one now! Not sure who I want to use it on or why, but still...
Suffice to say that if blacks were one monolithic organisation and they behaved as the church has done, they would have no cause for complaint when they became the targets of legitimate satire.
I don’t have a double standard, and I won’t allow you to have one either.
Now I didn't say anything. Please try to remember that AZPaul and I are separate people.
Mutate and Survive

On two occasions I have been asked, — "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-02-2011 3:56 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-05-2011 4:12 PM Granny Magda has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4228 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 56 of 136 (632094)
09-05-2011 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Granny Magda
09-04-2011 8:25 AM


Re: Does this count? No, not really.
AZPaul3 was merely engaging in legitimate satire. At no point did he say or even imply that all Catholics, or even all Catholic priests are rapists. You are being over-sensitive, especially in light of the fact that you yourself have told some rather close-to-the-knuckle jokes around here before now.
The Catholic church has invited this kind of satire. It has only itself to blame. If you don't like it, blame the church for creating this shit storm.
what a dodge.[Sarcasm]
get called out and its ALWAYS just satire or a joke, I did not see anything in the post to suggest satire, joking or sarcasm. This is just a cop-out for being called out. I aint buying it. he is busted, let him come to his own defense.
Suffice to say that if blacks were one monolithic organisation and they behaved as the church has done, they would have no cause for complaint when they became the targets of legitimate satire.
welcome to the department of redundancy department; would it have not been easier just to "like" Dr Adequate's post? Instead of repeating what was already stated.
Now I didn't say anything. Please try to remember that AZPaul and I are separate people.
LOL, but you are taking to his defense. and now you are trying to dodge disparaging a large demographic of the planet. why the dodge? you can stand up or AZPaul3, but not for yourself? (that's odd).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Granny Magda, posted 09-04-2011 8:25 AM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by AZPaul3, posted 09-05-2011 6:00 PM Artemis Entreri has seen this message but not replied
 Message 58 by Granny Magda, posted 09-06-2011 2:28 AM Artemis Entreri has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(5)
Message 57 of 136 (632109)
09-05-2011 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Artemis Entreri
09-05-2011 4:12 PM


Re: Does this count? No, not really.
get called out and its ALWAYS just satire or a joke, I did not see anything in the post to suggest satire, joking or sarcasm. This is just a cop-out for being called out. I aint buying it. he is busted, let him come to his own defense.
Already did that. You acknowledged it. Message 46
Initial satire, yes. But no joke.
You have a systemic criminal problem in your church, world-wide, for generations, that you, your bishops, your cardinals and your pope have done nothing, and continue to do nothing, but obfuscate, whitewash and hide.
We do not disparage a large demographic of this planet. Your church did that to you and to all catholics and continues to do that to you and to all catholics to this day.
The boy-buggering priests are guilty of child abuse and should serve time. The rest of your church hierarchy is guilty of aiding and abetting, interfering with the administration of justice and are accessories after the fact. Your pope should be in jail.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-05-2011 4:12 PM Artemis Entreri has seen this message but not replied

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 58 of 136 (632156)
09-06-2011 2:28 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Artemis Entreri
09-05-2011 4:12 PM


Re: Does this count? No, not really.
AE writes:
get called out and its ALWAYS just satire or a joke, I did not see anything in the post to suggest satire, joking or sarcasm. This is just a cop-out for being called out. I aint buying it. he is busted, let him come to his own defense.
AZPaul3 writes:
Initial satire, yes.
Oh look, I was right. What a shock. Funny how could see that and you couldn't. Do you not think that there is even a possibility that you over-reacted?
welcome to the department of redundancy department; would it have not been easier just to "like" Dr Adequate's post? Instead of repeating what was already stated.
He made the exact point I would have made. I said that I agreed. I write what I please in my own posts thank you. You really are clutching at straws now.
You "black" analogy was seriously flawed. Live with it.
LOL, but you are taking to his defense.
Yes, because I disagreed with your criticism. Nonetheless, I didn't disparage anyone, although I will if you insist. When you apparently get mixed up about who said what, it makes it look as though you aren't paying attention that's all.
and now you are trying to dodge disparaging a large demographic of the planet.
Oh look, more stuff you made up. I never disparaged anyone and, as matter of fact, the post you originally objected to made it perfectly clear that not all priests were at fault. What you are taking offence at seems to be largely in your own imagination.
Might I suggest that you save your ire for those who deserve it; like child raping priests and their cronies perhaps? Because if you are this pissed off about one little comment on a message board, I'm surprised that you're not angrier about the thousands of rapes and subsequent cover up.
Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-05-2011 4:12 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-06-2011 10:53 AM Granny Magda has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4228 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 59 of 136 (632206)
09-06-2011 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Granny Magda
09-06-2011 2:28 AM


Re: Does this count? No, not really.
Because if you are this pissed off about one little comment on a message board, I'm surprised that you're not angrier about the thousands of rapes and subsequent cover up.
not pissed at all. Just like pointing out the double standards and cop-outs here, that is all.
Oh look, I was right. What a shock. Funny how could see that and you couldn't.
plausible deniability
When you apparently get mixed up about who said what, it makes it look as though you aren't paying attention that's all.
strawman. I knew who said what. you just got defensive, because I went for you after you defended someone else.
Mutate and Survive
Repent and Be Saved
you guys want to get back on topic, now?
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Granny Magda, posted 09-06-2011 2:28 AM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Granny Magda, posted 09-06-2011 11:04 AM Artemis Entreri has replied

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 60 of 136 (632209)
09-06-2011 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Artemis Entreri
09-06-2011 10:53 AM


Re: Does this count? No, not really.
So you decided not to address the argument at all this time, even reducing yourself to taking pot-shots at my signature.
not pissed at all. Just like pointing out the double standards and cop-outs here, that is all.
The dazzling hypocrisy of you, of all people, taking offence at what you regard as an off-colour remark, is somewhat obscuring your point.
you just got defensive, because I went for you after you defended someone else.
I got defensive because you implied that I said something that I did not say.
you guys want to get back on topic, now?
Yeah, fair comment.
Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-06-2011 10:53 AM Artemis Entreri has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-07-2011 11:00 AM Granny Magda has replied
 Message 62 by fearandloathing, posted 09-07-2011 5:07 PM Granny Magda has seen this message but not replied

  
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