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Author | Topic: General Discussion Of Moderation Procedures (aka 'The Whine List') | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Admin writes: Would you like to give a fuller, more accurate summary? Admittedly, the word "through" was an exaggeration. However you did indeed debate, moderate and mother me through a page or two of that thread both as member and admin, directing me as to what I was to address before moving on etc. As to evidences, I have some time today, my rest/sabbath day, to propose a thread relative to evidence, by definition. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
buzsaw writes: Admittedly, the word "through" was an exaggeration. However you did indeed debate, moderate and mother me through a page or two of that thread both as member and admin, directing me as to what I was to address before moving on etc. You don't want to say anything about evidence? Anyway, you apparently haven't forgotten evidence was the issue because you continue:
As to evidences, I have some time today, my rest/sabbath day, to propose a thread relative to evidence, by definition. The goal of an evidence thread is to reach a consensus about the nature of valid evidence of real events. Edited by Admin, : Grammar.
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Just found a Dave Barry column that concludes with the dart idea: Sticking it to bad drivers
Couldn't find any appropriate images. Found a lot of images of Dodge Darts.
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3978 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.3
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Hi, cavediver. I lurk now--it seems that everything I have to say gets said by someone else.
Moose has had a major hard-on for jar since jar returned: sort of a Joseph McCarthy to jar's Old China Hand. For all the insistence that jar is breaking or abusing one forum rule or another, the problem appears stylistic. Jar has a style that Moose doesn't like, and Moose has the power to penalize him for it. Jar being jar, he will then be even more jar. As others have pointed out, Moose will endure a torrent of off-topic, impenetrable bile from one member for days, but suspend jar for an epigrammatic, koan-like or too-casual reply. If jar had to change that style, he wouldn't be jar--and then what would be the point of being here? Moose, of course, must be Moose. So I expect none of this will change. As for me, I enjoy them both, each for his own idiosyncratic perspective. I sailed down the hurricane-swollen Connecticut River to Long Island Sound today and watched 500,000 tree swallows form a vortex in an evening sky filling with stars. Moose and jar remind me of that: so alike and so far apart, so congruent and so mutually alien. Or something like that. I hope you are well. Your posts remain a rare pleasure.
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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Hello everyone!
Because he has not responded to posts here as he usually, does, I think Adminnemooseus must be off enjoying the holiday. I can't know for certain what Adminnemooseus would have done were he here, but unsuspending Jar seems like a likely possibility, so in his absence I have rescinded Jar's suspension. Jar and Coyote have no restrictions on their participation in the Potential Evidence for a Global Flood thread. For Jar I'd like to suggest clicking on the "-" dislike button in place of at least some one-liner replies. Concerning being on-topic in this thread, I don't think Adminnemooseus and I are in agreement, but I don't think unanimity amongst moderators can always be expected. Coyote's Message 138 did fail to address any of JBR's points, and he did repeat points he has made many times in the past, but on the other hand the thread's topic is about evidence for the flood, none of JBR's points were evidence for the flood, and I do think Coyote's message was on-topic. To this moderator JBR's points appeared to be criticisms of widely accepted views within geology containing no positive evidence for the flood. They also appeared to be unattributed rephrasings from creationist websites, not cut-n-pastes, but not exactly his own words, either. This moderator believes that responding to JBR's points would risk diverting the thread's topic to a defense of modern geological views instead of an examination of flood evidence, but I'm a participant in that thread, not a moderator (except when it comes to IamJoseph, who I'd been following around from one science thread to the next asking him to stop arguing the Bible and start arguing the science). I don't know that there's a best response to JBR's points. Some replied with circumspection, asking him if there is any point in particular he'd like to focus on. Others replied by trying to identify specifics of the flood viewpoint, like when it happened. Others replied by pointing out that JBR had not actually offered any positive evidence for the flood. These all seem to have potential as possibly fruitful directions for discussion.
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cavediver Member (Idle past 3643 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: |
Hi, cavediver. I lurk now And we're the poorer for it. Would be great to see more of your posts around. I think it's the lack of calm considered posts by the old guard that's making me all cranky and bad-tempered. Very true words you write about Jar and Moose. And now we've got Jar back again... again I think he should celebrate by bringing back his old orang avatar... eh, Jar?
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3978 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.3
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cavediver writes: Would be great to see more of your posts around. I think it's the lack of calm considered posts by the old guard that's making me all cranky and bad-tempered. Anyone who has known me here for only the past few years must think you mad to say so--with good reason. The series of health and life crises I faced in the past half dozen years left me mentally and physically exhausted, emotionally labile and intellectually blunted. I'm feeling and doing much better now, and when I feel myself on yet firmer ground, I'll participate more regularly. Until then, I've embarrassed myself and the forum enough. I reviewed what I wrote above, and I see one important omission. Moose has contributed heroically to this forum; the job he does is challenging and largely thankless. I recall reading that a 99.9% functional space shuttle wouldn't fly: the complexity of the system being so great that, by way of analogy with a car, a loose thread in the back seat means the motor won't start. Moose faces a similar challenge here. The volume is staggering, and the onlookers are sharp-eyed, ferociously intelligent and extraordinarily sensitive to any hint of unfairness. So, yes, I think Moose has a blind spot about jar and sometimes makes other errors. Like the shuttle, though, EvC functions well. Even in exile, I read this forum...umm...religiously. It's a horrifically difficult job, and Moose deserves far more thanks than brickbats. We're a tough crowd.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member
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Omnivorous writes: ......... the problem appears stylistic. Jar has a style that Moose doesn't like, and Moose has the power to penalize him for it. Jar being jar, he will then be even more jar. Having spent some time at Dreamcathers, I know you and Jar are good buds, you having been quite active with him at Dreamcatchers, so your assessment of Jar is not, IMO totally objective. Thank God for Adminnemooseous. He's got balls, so to speak. He's the only moderator who keeps Jar at least somewhat at bay. Jar is the creationist's in your face one or two liner pain in the butt. That's how he racked up thousands more total posts than the rest of us old timers. Fpr example, if he, in his own secularist mindset thinks a creationist haven't responded to his satisfaction he keeps on keeping on repeating the one or two liner questions. Admins, compatible with Jar's ideology, (except Minnemooseus) kowtow to his ilk and a couple of other regulars by demanding evidence from people like me. If he'd post half or less as much, submitting just the ones of substance, Moose and creationists could tolerate him. Some of his substantive responses keep creationists on our toes. Moose is getting a bad rap by some of you people. You don't understand that, not being on the receiving end on people like Jar's MO. IMO, Jar would have been served well with a month's time to understand that here at EvC he's not CEO of Dreamcatcher. Here any older time creationist who acted like him toward Adminnemooseous would have most certainly served out the full month without Admin's pardon. Case in point is Bolder Dash who sat out his full month's suspension administered by Admin who pardoned Jar after a few day's slap on the hand. Jar's pardon is like the kid who gets punished by daddy and mommy pats him on the head, handing him a cookie as soon as daddy is off to work. Too many here fail to realize all of the free time and effort Moose gives in order for this board to function. We all make our share of mistakes. Moose is no exception, but by and large he's the most fair and balanced member of the administration team. Some of what I've said here can be more fully realized by those who see things from the creationist minority perspective. Edited by Buzsaw, : Add word "be" to last line Edited by Buzsaw, : delete "can not" from the last sentence. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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As long as you've made it less politically incorrect to say something nice about Moose, let me add that in addition to his moderator responsibilities, the amount of work he does behind the scenes is prodigious and valuable, plus the feedback and suggestions he provides about board behavior is remarkably insightful.
Glad to hear things seem to have taken a turn for the better for you.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Admin writes: Because he has not responded to posts here as he usually, does, I think Adminnemooseus must be off enjoying the holiday. Or perhaps unhappily licking the wounds which ungrateful constituents have inflicted upon him these past few days, given the hours upon hours in which he has expended to serve us all. I hope the volley of shots haven't been straws breaking the camel's back. As much as he would be missed, I wouldn't blame him. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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nwr Member Posts: 6408 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Buzsaw writes:
My assessment is that jar is a decent and honest person, who does what he believes is right. His posting practices are just jar being jar.
Jar is the creationist's in your face one or two liner pain in the butt. That's how he racked up thousands more total posts than the rest of us old timers. Fpr example, if he, in his own secularist mindset thinks a creationist haven't responded to his satisfaction he keeps on keeping on repeating the one or two liner questions. Buzsaw writes:
If you and other creationists would post something of substance, then there would be more substance in jar's replies and in the replies of others.If he'd post half or less as much, submitting just the ones of substance, Moose and creationists could tolerate him. I'm guessing, but I'm inclined to think that moose is a bit of a neat freak, and when things get too far from his idea of a desirable neatness or orderliness, he tries to do something about it. However, it is the nature of internet debating, that it is hard to keep it neat. And sometimes moose goes a bit overboard in his efforts. However, I agree with Omnivorous, that moose puts in a lot of effort and does a lot of good for this board.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Are you saying that I ever limited or censored any post that you made either here or at Dreamcatcher?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3978 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.3
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You're right, Buz--I did indeed fail to acknowledge the good and valuable work Moose does here in Msg 244. Had you read a little further, you'd see I quickly corrected my omission.
I'm also confident that you are correct in saying that I am not totally objective about anything. I have yet to meet anyone who is. Do you think that you are? This is probably not the time or place to discuss my relationship with Dreamcatcher and jar, but since you raise the subject, it suffices to say that my participation and support of that site collapsed soon after its creation. I think jar and other members there were counting on me to help keep it active; I let them down--like everyone else who counted on me for anything in those days. Jar and I have not been in direct contact for many months. Otherwise, I have no quibbles with your praise of Moose. I expressed my honest opinion on the current situation concerning jar and Moose for the same reasons I signed off on Taz's petition to restore full access to you. I have taken such positions before in favor of members whose views are diametrically opposed to my own. I'm sure I will again. Nonetheless, I'd note that if you simply answered direct questions, they wouldn't be repeated. My perception is that you think direct answers to direct questions are a "gotcha" landmine, so you will not provide them. As to Bolder-Dash...well, in the past as a mod I defended his continuing participation (under another nick), as I did Faith's, and was thanked with a boot in the face. He can sink or swim on his own.
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3978 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.3 |
Thanks, Percy, for the good wishes. I'll slip back into lurker mode now--this topic has already drawn me out longer than I planned.
I hope to return under full sail soon, flying a proud (and imperturbably calm) evolution flag.
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3974 Joined:
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It's my impression that the Peanut Gallery has turned into a giant mess.
There are only two active "Great Debates", and one of those has just been reactivated after a 3 month lull. Thus, all the PG conversation apparently relates to the RAZD/Bluejeans topic. Personally, I suspect the PG has turned into an independent piece of chaos. My suggestions:
What do you think? I think this could help both the PG and the GD. AdminnemooseusPlease be familiar with the various topics and other links in the "Essential Links", found in the top of the page menu. Amongst other things, this is where to find where to report various forum problems.
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