News on Religion in Our Goverments

I didn't know it was a sig, Mine never shows up. all message boards are different, but the placement of a sig under the post with no divider is really odd compared to most message boards I post on. well that was never my intent, but if you want to read me a certain way so you can respond then i cannot stop you. why bother any time I make a point, then you say "oh i was joking" or some other bullshit cop-out dodge. thanks for this short lesson, I wouldn't waste my time trying to formulate something to say to you anymore.Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.

To be fair to AE your signature is different than mine?? Must be a bug? I have never notice it before as your signature has been the same since I joined, at some point it was separate if I remember correct.

The fact that it appears at the bottom of every one of my eighteen hundred plus messages didn't tip you off? Okay.I got it out of a comicbook. Just liked the sound of it. It's not set to automatically appear. I type it in each time. It just pleases me to do so for some reason. So again, no attempt on your part to address the actual argument, just more childish whining. You want to be careful you don't act too much like a child AE. You might get buggered by a priest.Mutate and Survive

I haven't seen any problem with signatures, there is a box at the bottom which states "Include signature." It appears to work. with a line separating the post fro m the sig.Edited by bluescat48, : added line

its not a sig because you type it out every time, otherwise the sigs on this site are divided by a grey line. I added my signature by clicking the box. this is the 2nd time you are being called out in this thread, lol busted. whatever d00d I am satisfied with calling you out and you being a childish asshole about it like you are right now.

Its still a sig. Sigs have been around long before programs could automatically add them to a message. I typed a sig every time for years before email programs had built in support. There are still forums that do not allow for or have auto sigs. I still have to type my sig out every time I post. Pot meet kettle.oh yeah
I am satisfied with calling you out and you being a childish asshole about it like you are right now.

LOLwell it takes one to know one and you are the biggest one.

Well your new sig just kind of says it all doesn't it. You might want to try growing up some day.

This article caught my attention. The Catholic Church's Secret Sex-Crime Files: I think part of the problem here is that the Church itself is part of Catholic theology. Indeed, the very word Catholic refers to this position --- that there is one Catholic (i.e. universal) Church, and that this is it.---Anyway, perhaps we're drifting from the topic, since I suppose that we're all in agreement that the state gets to prosecute pedophile priests.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

seems the topic is long lost on this thread.

The Catholic church is all over the news, it might be an interesting topic to discuss who all should be punished in a new thread?I personally think covering up for a guilty priest is as bad as molesting the children, worse if you simply move him to a new parish knowing there is a chance it will happen again.RAZD is right, this topic has run amuck, I'll try to keep it more focused.

ooh that is a good one did you come up with that comeback by yourself?roflmfaoyou got mad skillz!

Hi AE,Can we try and keep to topic. No need to get into a poo slinging contest.Thanks Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

Hi fearandloathing,I've considered a couple of places to post this, and have chosen this thread as it may lead to a more productive discussion that what has preceded of late.It's likely controversial, and you may not consider it on topic, but . . . I am sick and tired of the cult of worship that seems to have grown around this incident, particularly now that we are being inundated by a constant stream of references from Labor Day to today with no end until the 11th in sight. A week of wallowing in the past and a week of almost reverent talk about the threats of further terrorism.It was an act of terrorism. It wasn't the first, it wasn't the first in America, and it won't be the last. We live in a world where terrorism exists -- and it existed before 9-11 and it will continue to exist until the social inequalities\causes that incubate terrorism are dealt with and marginalized (Ushering In An Age of Reason....Or Not.....? was another thread I considered infiltrating, but didn't want to disturb the discussion there).I see very little in the way of effort to reduce the problems and issues that incubate terrorism, in fact it seems that many policies, intentional or not, have increased the likelihood of future terrorism (the war in Iraq, staying in Afghanistan, killing civilians, keeping the prisoners in GITMO, even after Osama bin Laden was killed, etc.).It's as though the "War against Terrorism" is a Holy War that cannot be questioned, where alternative approaches cannot be raised.The problem is that terrorism is not just an American problem, it is a world problem, with people all over the world involved as victims (and yes I consider\include the terrorists as victims too), and that it is not a "war" that can be fought with military forces -- it is a police problem to track down leaders and bring justice, and it is a political problem to deal with the social inequalities\causes that incubate terrorism.I also find that the Cult of Fear that seems to have taken over the media is very disturbing. It's almost like the can't wait for the next attack.The idea that fear justifies taking away constitutional rights is something that I find appalling.This cult of fear has also been used to justify attacks on american muslims and american arabs, as if they are, or were, personally responsible.Much preferable to me is the stance of Franklin Delanor Roosevelt"Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself": FDR's First Inaugural Address

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I am certain that my fellow Americans expect that on my induction into the Presidency I will address them with a candor and a decision which the present situation of our people impel. This is preeminently the time to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Nor need we shrink from honestly facing conditions in our country today. This great Nation will endure as it has endured, will revive and will prosper. So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itselfnameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance. In every dark hour of our national life a leadership of frankness and vigor has met with that understanding and support of the people themselves which is essential to victory. I am convinced that you will again give that support to leadership in these critical days.

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This is the way I expect Americans to act, not to bring in the "Patriot" act.Oh what a difference in tone it would have made, if Schrubbia had quoted this passage and asked people to rise up rather than ask them to shrink in fear.There are also the quote/s attributed to Benjamin Franklin:Benjamin Franklin - Wikiquote

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They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

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This was written by Franklin, with quotation marks but almost certainly his original thought, sometime shortly before February 17, 1775 as part of his notes for a proposition at the Pennsylvania Assembly, as published in Memoirs of the life and writings of Benjamin Franklin (1818). A variant of this was published as:

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Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

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This was used as a motto on the title page of An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania. (1759); the book was published by Franklin; its author was Richard Jackson, but Franklin did claim responsibility for some small excerpts that were used in it.

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An earlier variant by Franklin in Poor Richard's Almanack (1738): "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."

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Many paraphrased derivatives of this have often become attributed to Franklin:

• They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
• They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
• Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.
• He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.
• He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.
• People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.
• If we restrict liberty to attain security we will lose them both.
• Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
• He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither.
• Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither.
• Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security.

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This was a sentiment expressed during the times when our nation was first being founded, and it still rings true today.We can cower in fear, institute massive legal intrusion into our lives, liberties and freedoms, and be no safer. Instead we risk losing our nation and encouraging further terrorism.More people are killed in auto accidents every year, and these are more likely to affect the average American than terrorism, yet we don't cower in fear about it.I also find this inspiring in the proper way:September Eleventh Families for Peaceful Tomorrows

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http://www.peacefultomorrows.org/article.php?list=type&ty...
Peaceful Tomorrows is an organization founded by family members of those killed on September 11th who have united to turn our grief into action for peace. By developing and advocating nonviolent options and actions in the pursuit of justice, we hope to break the cycles of violence engendered by war and terrorism.

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9/11 Families for Peaceful TomorrowsHome - 9/11 Families for Peaceful Tomorrows
Peaceful Tomorrows Reflects on 10th Anniversary of Attacks
September 9th, 2011

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Family Members Call for Compassion to Extend Beyond 9/11 Victims to Commemorate the Loss of Loved Ones

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New York, NY, September 8, 2011Today, in advance of the 10th anniversary of the September 11th, 2001 attacks, September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows, a group of family members of those killed in the attacks, released the following statement:

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The members of September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows are grateful for the expressions of remembrance and concern being offered on the 10th anniversary of the events which took the lives of our loved ones. On this day we ask those who feel compassion for our loss to expand their compassion to include others who continue to experience loss ten years later: innocent families in Afghanistan and Iraq experiencing the loss of their loved ones and displacement from their communities as the result of war and political strife; Muslim-Americans subjected to bias and violence at home; those denied the protections of our Constitution and law, whether in Guantanamo or in our own country; those suffering from job loss and economic dislocation related to the cost of war and rising military budgets; and those who have seen their civil iberties and freedoms exchanged for the false promise of security.

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The lesson of 9/11 is that we live in a connected world. We rise or fall together. As Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., said, Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. On this 10th anniversary, let us honor those we lost by recognizing our kinship with people all over the world, and affirming the values and principles that will guarantee peaceful tomorrows for everyone."

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Not much more to say after that. EnjoyEdited by RAZD, : ...Edited by RAZD, : color

Hi RAZD, People seem to forget the homegrown terrorist, Timothy McVeigh for example. When you hear "terrorist" now you think of a Arabic person probably. We have created quite a few radicals here with no help from Islam. As I write this CNN is talking about possible dirty bomb attack in NYC or DC.

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NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) Just two days before the 10th anniversary, New York City is on high alert.

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Federal and local authorities have beefed up security after receiving intelligence about a credible threat. The alleged plot by al Qaeda involves detonating car bombs on bridges and in tunnels in New York and Washington D.C. to coincide with the anniversary of 9/11.

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Read more...I agree, I think of how much money we spent to help the Afghan freedom fighters defeat the soviets, then when that was done we pretty much left. Maybe we could've made a difference by having continued to give support in the way of education and medical care, food...ect. But we didn't and the radicals we supported are now the terrorist we are so scared of. We created them when we let them indoctrinate a whole generation of children.

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Wilson's role remains controversial because most of the aid was supplied to Islamist hardliner Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, now a senior Taliban leader and a supporter of al-Qaeda.

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Charlie WilsonThe patriot act sickens me. We as a people have given up so much in the name of safety, given so much power to the government in the hopes they won't abuse it. Personally I don't trust them. In the pursuit of freedom and justice we seem all too willing to sacrifice both. AbE In NYC and DC the police and homeland security are randomly searching vans and trucks. How does that work? If your a plumber or repairman or anyone driving a van you might get searched for no other reason than the vehicle you happen to be driving? Doesn't sound very much like "The land of the free" to me.The media this morning has been about nothing but terrorism, the mission NASA launched to study the moons gravity got about 2 minutes of mention and a brief video of the launch. Everything else has had to do with 9/11 and terror. Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.