Religious Conversions

Nice topic, I like it. I don't have any time right now for a lengthy response and look forward to delving into this. For now tho my friend(not really)Al-Gharib wanted to say a few things: He has much more to say and looks forward for the oppurtunity to tell you why he believes christianity over Islam.http://www.answering-islam.org/Testimonies/algharib.htmlAfter all, this is part of his testimoney. And many many many more have testified to the same thing. See above. Geeez Straggs, don't be so inconsiderate of our new friend Al-Gharib. He's very sensitive and plus, I told him everyone here was nice and accepting of other people's faiths.We have to run now, so take care and try to be a little more compassionate with people I bring around here

What kind of evidence would do you? Give me your address and i'll stop by with a converted Muslim ok? You won't trust any sources so whats the use for a thread?Did you really need a whole thread to say "nanernaner it's not true chuck"?This is from the one site I referenced at the other thread that Dr Adequate found fault withIf you have a problem with that email Mr. Joel C. Rosenberg whos name is on the line as we speak ok? Im sure him lying about this cannot be good for book sales, what do you think?Author of the New York Times best selling political thrillers, THE LAST JIHAD (2002), THE LAST DAYS (2003), THE EZEKIEL OPTION (2005), and THE COPPER SCROLL (2006), more than one million copies in print, writes: "More Muslims converted to faith in Jesus Christ over the past decade than at any other time in human history."svm news117Related articles off that site include"related articles of: "Muslims turn to Christ" (article of the American Daily), "Persecution Harder Among Muslims Who Convert to Christianity, But Saved Souls Bring Great Joy to Believers" (news story of Assist News Service), "India: Islamic Extremist Threatens Christian Convert" (news story of the Compass Direct News), "Persecution harder; but saved souls bring great joy" (news story of SVM News), "Gospel to Muslims" (article of SVM), "Rehabilitation Center for the Persecuted Christians" (article of SVM), "6 Million Muslims LEAVE Islam every year" (Interview of AL-Jazeera satellite TV between Maher Abdallah and Shiekh Ahmed Katani) and
"Muslim converts face ostracism in France" (Zee News)..".Maybe Dr Adaquate should stop assulting my character and do a little more research and also email that gentleman since he knows more than him. Has Dr Adaquate lived in the Mideast for three months as He, his wife and kids did? Im going to take Joel C. Rosenberg's word over Dr A's who spends all day online and calling everyone liars. How about you?How many links/sources would you like? There are tons. Try reading a few instead of saying "is this true"?How are we going to address this I think truth matters. Im not one to believe in relativism. My whole point about Islam/Christianity is to show that truth always wins out.Mr Dawkins likes to always compare Islam to Christianity. He seems to think there is no difference and likens us to terrorists. Well, it seems there is a difference. Ask the converts. Is the sheer number of non-Christians evidence that Christianity is not true? There are religions with bigger numbers obviously. Conversion rates favor Christianity more than others.Where would you like to go with this thread exactly?

Ok, im game, except when you click the link you provided it goes here: Claims to be the fastest-growing religionHow about we go here: Religious ConversionWhich would you rather talk about since it's your thread?I'd rather talk about conversions but growing religions is fine too.I guess if you're choosing a religion or converting you are still technically choosing.For instance, I was raised a Catholic. I made my communion, comformation etc. I went to sunday school. I grew up in a laid back religious environment, basically non-religious. None of my family members were Born-again and hardly would be called practicing Catholics. I was the first to accept Christ in my family.I wasn't really a practicing Catholic so im not even sure it's considered a conversion from catholicism to Christianity. There are so many differences with the two. Im not sure it's what you want to discuss but catholics teach you are born-again at baptism as a newborn. The Bible teaches: Nonetheless, people are joining/converting to certain religions. My contention is that Islam in particular is often compared to Christianity as the same in being "extreme" fundamentalists'.Mr. Dawkins likes to compare us both in the same light. My point in showing that Muslims in particular (although other religions are converting to Christianity also) convert more to Christianity than the other way around is to show Christianity is more believable as a faith than Islam and IMO gives some validity to the Bible and Christianity as a whole.We don't have to discuss this in particular, im just using it as an example. We can disuss conversions or the link you provided which refers to growing religions.Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

I thought I did but you seem to gloss over everything I write. Every single reference I gave you. For not. You seem more concerened about the guiness book of world records for some reason. Oh, so every source you cite is acceptable. Even tho we have no idead how that source get there sources.You want to say they have done more research than me BUT Joel C. Rosenberg is not good enough for you? Have you done more research than him? Yeah, I didn't think so.Im trying to have a debate here and you have completley ignored my last two posts.let me know when you actually want to deabte and not play games. I already did. Try moving the debate forward instead of staying stuck in neutral.

Hi Rahvin. It's ironic you posted here. Just the other night I came across one of your POTM and was reading it. Message 392It's a good one and deserved the nomination. Im not in any way trying to act or think im smarter than you here, so please don't take offense to me trying to make a few points like others here do.And thanks for your response here. It's nice to actually read a response that is not condescending. Maybe the one you wrote a little further down is (the persecution comment but i'll take the good with the bad.Can I address two points you made in your POTM before I comment on your response here? Exactly. And my Bible tells me that things produce after their own kind, which incidently, we obseve happening every day. Rahvin, Can you relay this message to Straggler by any chance?------------------------ Rahvin, I know what I know based on things I see and read. Just like you about our universe. Tho, I assume when it comes from me (a Christian-I know im being persecuted people just dismiss it, but Straggler cites the guiness book of world records and the debate is well, over.Im actually born-again. I've been a believer for the last twenty years. I know of no Born-again christian converting to islam. Of course some are! Tho I say more muslims are converting over to christianity.Im not at ALL saying all Catholics are not Christians. Some are and SOME aren't. Some recieve Christ as their personal Savior some just go thru the motions. My point is the PRACTICING Christians/Catholics who follow the whole Bible are NOT converting over to Islam. Why would they? Once you know the truth why leave? Well, for starters I posted my sources a bunch of times. No one as of yet has posted contrary. Where are all the links/sources saying more Christians are converting over to Islam as opposed to what im claiming?That's all im saying and Straggler makes a thread about it instead of researching it for himself.He cited that Islam is the worlds fastest grwing religion. So what. How many times have we heard someone repeat what Richard Dawkins says about where we are born is what we believe? Now tho, that argument is swept under the rug in favor of making a point that is not relevant to the discussion. Yeah, it's hard to do. The actually numbers can't be known. We do know some tho, and it favors Christianity way more. Im talking conversion and not growth. Geez really Rahvin? Next time you go to work do a poll of Born-Agains in your workplace, ok?Im NOT taking what everyone says like you are. Some people just call themselves christians, it doesn't make it so, sorry. Im talking about Bible believing Christians who know the truth. Im talking #1's on the Dawkins scale. Not some feel good legalistic sunday Chistain who calls themselves a Christian. or just happen to grow up in a Christian home. My own experiences in the last twenty years. The links/sources I provided. Why am I the one doing all the work? Because I claimed it right? Ok, fine, well you can't disporve claims by saying it's not true like everyone here is doing. without actually reading and researching what I posted. Ok, so you need exact data. How about all the testimoneis from all the Muslims on various sites online, books, videos? Do a simple search and you'll see them all.If we were debating the TOE would you not recommend I visit a few sites for myself as I do not see apes transitioning into humans today? I'll need some data where I can see it happening. Oh, you say but we are in just a small frame of time in millions of years, ok then. It that the theory? The best possible explanation we have? Great. But you have a hard time believing that more muslims are converting to christianity than the other way around? But, but, you also said this in your POTM:

It doesn't. Did I say it did? Im simply saying we observe what the bible teaches. It was just a side note to Rahvin. Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

I was bringing it up to Rahvin, incidently. Because he Rahvin said this:I am aslo pointing out that Christianity says the same thing about what WE believe. Okay?Why is this a problem for you? Here's a tip, try to wait out what Rahvin might say to my post. If he doesn't bring up your brilliant questions then feel free to ask some more, kk?

What you have claimed I posted so far on this thread is innacurate.So far here it is:http://www.answering-islam.org/Testimonies/algharib.htmlthats from Message 4It's a testimony of a Muslim convert. And this is the actualy site I got it from if you would have bothered to click the link it will take you to the home page at the bottom, take a look:http://www.answering-islam.org/Testimonies/index.htmlAlso, yeah I screwed that link up. Here is the correct one. Thanks.Islam Watch - "Millions of Muslims Converting to Christianity" by Salem VoiceAt the bottom of the article on that site it says: If you check at the bottom of that link it says:svm news117 which takes you to his blog instead of the website. My bad.And all this from Message 11:Author of the New York Times best selling political thrillers, THE LAST JIHAD (2002), THE LAST DAYS (2003), THE EZEKIEL OPTION (2005), and THE COPPER SCROLL (2006), more than one million copies in print, writes: "More Muslims converted to faith in Jesus Christ over the past decade than at any other time in human history."If you would have simply looked into this claim, it brings you here:http://www.somebodycares4u.com/millions_of_muslims.htmAlso from Message 11:-Muslims turn to Christ" (article of the American Daily),IRIS' Israel Blog - IRISAlso from Message 11:- "Persecution Harder Among Muslims Who Convert to Christianity, But Saved Souls Bring Great Joy to Believers" (news story of Assist News Service),Page not found – Assist NewsAlso from Message 11:-"India: Islamic Extremist Threatens Christian Convert" (news story of the Compass Direct News),ForbiddenAlso from Message 11:-"6 Million Muslims LEAVE Islam every year" (Interview of AL-Jazeera satellite TV between Maher Abdallah and Shiekh Ahmed Katani)Print Redirect | VirtueOnline — The Voice for Global Orthodox AnglicanismAlso from Message 11:-"Muslim converts face ostracism in France" (Zee News)..".Zee News: Latest News, Live Breaking News, Today News, India Political News UpdatesIm sorry I didnt provide the every single link in the posts. You could have searched them just as easily.As for the wiki links, if you actually read my post Message 16
you will see me asking Straggler what he would like to discuss and WASN'T using the links as evidence. Nice try tho If your going to try to make me look bad atleast do it honestly or, just join the club that follows me around saying im a liar. I'll add you to the list.Everything in this comment can be found in my comments back thread. So it seems you are the liar here. Not me. I'll await your apology.
Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

I got this article from a magazine I like. It's a pretty prominant magazine in Christian circles."Evangelists Say Muslims Coming to Christ at Historic Rate" Reference: http://www.charismamag.com/...ing-to-christ-at-historic-rateThere is much more to the article. I would appreciate it if you read the whole thing.This of course in not "proof" or "evidence" that more muslims are converting to christianity than the other way around.Rahvin makes a good point when he said:And And you've said basically the same things. So, I agree, I don't know for sure, you're right. I believe they are tho.It is my belief/conviction based on the subjective "evidence" i've seen/come across in the years i've been a Christian that more muslims are converting to Christinaity than Christians are converting to Islam.

I can message you all the info I know of, we can talk to people i've talked to, you can go to church with me this week if you like. We can do a missions trip with a missionary team reporting these findings and so on and so forth.Likewise, you can do the same with the muslim claiming the same things as me.You choose who you then think has more credibility, Or choose neither.The same subjective evidence that these people see in why they are converting is available to you just as it was to them. I guess talking to a real convert would be a good start.

Congratulations dude! I knew it wouldn't be long before someone still chose to say "BUT YOU SAID"!! although I wasn't sure who it would be.Im sorry man. I feel I can't really have a normal discussion with people who still insist upon talking advantage of my humbleness and honesty.Is this not the point of debate? I already admitted what I said was incorrect and CLEARLY admitted such. BUT, for some reason still, that is not enough im noticing here for some.All I can say is re-read what I actually said in this comment Message 76And then this comment Message 78It answers all of your questions you just asked. Im not sure how you missed it and im sorry you feel the need to press me for more when I feel I already gave enough.Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

But if you want to debate more just for the sake of debating sure.What I think now tho, is that we would be debating "subjective evidence", which we just did on another thread, which lead us to here.

I agree with your comment. Sorry I didn't respond to it. The apples and oranges analogy is a good one. I know that. I mean the studies may be subjective not the conversions themselves. The numbers I guess. Holy crap, I did didn't I?!?! Well im glad you came along because I posted pretty much the same things back thread and everyone kept saying it wasn't evidence. Im Glad you showed up here. I can't catch a break. Holy crap again, I did didn't I?!?! Thanks actually tho, for giving me a little credit here. It's much more than I anticipated. Yep. I agree. According to? I think tho, we can have an idea don't you? If we do actualy study all of the available sources , articles, witnesses etc etc can't we make/form an educated guess?Is there no way to make an informed opinion? Can you agree that atleast there is an argument to be made? I see that. I made an error in saying (as Straggler keeps pointing out) quite "belligerently" that more muslims were converting to Christinanity than islam.What else is there? We can't test every conversion. From what i've read and seen and heard it's my opinion that it's true. Of course it might not be but I seriously doubt it.Everything else I agree with in your comment. I should have gave it a plus which I just did. Well, it's not that mysterious. It's not like we are discussing abiogenesis and assuming so so much ya know? Yeah I hear ya. That big bang is sure assuming a lot Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

Duly noted. Sure. I tend to give more credence to the missionarys who are in the field than islamic websites who are not doing any mission work.Instead the tons of muslims that are being born into the muslim familys that accounts for some of the growth but not conversions. Thanks. Mr. Straggler sir, I have learned to not ever ever ever be belligerant with you in the least unless im absolutly positive that I can back up my statments with absolute 100% evidence that not even you could not deny.How's that? Sure, let's pop them. I good with that. There is much more to christianity than the numbers, of course.After all, Jesus said few be there that find it. I just happen to think few more muslims are converting to christianity than the other way around.It's just my educated opinion tho. No such evidence to make the claim valid in the eyes of the unbiased tho.Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.