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Author Topic:   Religious Conversions
Wollysaurus
Member (Idle past 4512 days)
Posts: 52
From: US
Joined: 08-25-2011


(1)
Message 10 of 97 (633404)
09-13-2011 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by DubyaDeeEm
09-13-2011 10:03 PM


Re: Religious Conversions
I have actually lived and worked in Muslim countries.
I think a reason a Christian might convert to Islam, at least at the outset, is because it seems much simpler. A simple declaration that there is only one God, and Muhammed is his prophet. Coupled with the relative simplicity of the five pillars (okay, six if you count Jihad) it can appear a much simpler, more straightforward alternative to Christianity.
Mind you, I learned that Islam is much more complex than I imagined, with a very rich tapestry of competing theologies, even within what we consider the two big factions, Sunni and Shiia. Obviously, this can lead to a great deal of bloodshed, both within the "boundaries" of Islam and directed against the infidels or apostates (who they refer to as "takfiri").
Of course, the social pressure a involved and the history of conversion (to live in a dimi status, pay a jizya, etc, or shed your old religion for societal and material comforts) come into play as well. It's not a simple story.
But you can find some similar trends in the history of Christianity as well, for example, Charlamagne's treatment of the pagan Saxons, or the conversions of Danes to gain favor with Alfred's Wessex.
Conversions, or their successes or failures, don't prove anything about who is right. The perceived gains (whether other worldly or in socio economic terms) play a huge role.
Added by edit:
Also, keep in mind that the convert does not have to "reject" Christ, but revere him as the prophet Isa upon conversion. Makes it a bit easier, I'm sure.
Edited by Wollysaurus, : No reason given.
Edited by Wollysaurus, : Autocorrect is the enemy
Edited by Wollysaurus, : No reason given.

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Wollysaurus
Member (Idle past 4512 days)
Posts: 52
From: US
Joined: 08-25-2011


Message 27 of 97 (633669)
09-15-2011 12:28 PM


Pew Forum
Interesting survey. It looks like Christianity in the U.S. is experiencing net losses, not gains:
Pew Forum Survey writes:
The Landscape Survey confirms that the United States is on the verge of becoming a minority Protestant country; the number of Americans who report that they are members of Protestant denominations now stands at barely 51%. Moreover, the Protestant population is characterized by significant internal diversity and fragmentation, encompassing hundreds of different denominations loosely grouped around three fairly distinct religious traditions - evangelical Protestant churches (26.3% of the overall adult population), mainline Protestant churches (18.1%) and historically black Protestant churches (6.9%).
While those Americans who are unaffiliated with any particular religion have seen the greatest growth in numbers as a result of changes in affiliation, Catholicism has experienced the greatest net losses as a result of affiliation changes. While nearly one-in-three Americans (31%) were raised in the Catholic faith, today fewer than one-in-four (24%) describe themselves as Catholic. These losses would have been even more pronounced were it not for the offsetting impact of immigration. The Landscape Survey finds that among the foreign-born adult population, Catholics outnumber Protestants by nearly a two-to-one margin (46% Catholic vs. 24% Protestant); among native-born Americans, on the other hand, the statistics show that Protestants outnumber Catholics by an even larger margin (55% Protestant vs. 21% Catholic). Immigrants are also disproportionately represented among several world religions in the U.S., including Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism.
report: Religion in America: U.S. Religious Data, Demographics and Statistics | Pew Research Center
If one is attempting to use religious conversion and retention rates as a gauge of truth, it would seem that a largely secular civil society would be ripe ground for statistical evidence of significant rates of conversion, as opposed to, say, areas which have populations with already already deep religious traditions and a proclivity for a belief in God.
The "religious free market" of the US, would, I think, be the best ground for a faith to really thrive and grow and assimilate new converts. Why does Christianity appear to be withering on the vine here? And why do so many who start out as children in various Christian churches shed those affiliations later in life?
A few more trends (some of the sources are over ten years old, however): Christian trends in the U.S.
Edited by Wollysaurus, : No reason given.
Edited by Wollysaurus, : added link

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Rahvin, posted 09-15-2011 1:13 PM Wollysaurus has replied

  
Wollysaurus
Member (Idle past 4512 days)
Posts: 52
From: US
Joined: 08-25-2011


Message 31 of 97 (633686)
09-15-2011 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Rahvin
09-15-2011 1:13 PM


Re: Pew Forum
Rahvin,
Excellent points.
However, I think the data does point to a general trend of attrition. Many within the church recognize that as children move out of the home, they are more likely to lose the religion of their upbringing. Here's some commentary on that:
College Students Need to Keep Their Faith
Religious decline and revival has long been a basic fact of history
Very true. Can't argue that.
However, if someone makes the claim that Christians stay Christian because they *know* the truth, a declining trend may be used as a counter argument. Unless, of course, you throw in a caveat like "well, no *true* Christians leave the faith".
Working in the Middle East for some three years, I got to know quite a few Muslims very well, and became friends with more than I expected. Some of the best meals I ever ate were picked off of platters with my own hands, and the best hosts I have ever had were there, period. One asked me if I had read the Quran yet. I did, and so he essentially asked me when I would be converting (in a very friendly way). I replied politely that I wouldn't be. He nodded seriously. "Ah yes, you have not yet read the Quran in Arabic!" Conditions, conditions!
I suppose the point is, to a Muslim, no *true* Muslim could convert to Christianity, just as to a hardline evangelical, no *true* Christian could ever leave the faith (whether for some vague Deism or another organized religion). Using growth rates, retention rates, conversions, whatever, as "evidence" of the truth of a particular religion is absurd.

This message is a reply to:
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Wollysaurus
Member (Idle past 4512 days)
Posts: 52
From: US
Joined: 08-25-2011


Message 35 of 97 (633803)
09-16-2011 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Straggler
09-16-2011 1:48 PM


Re: Christ Converts To Islam
Gotta love the Onion!
But of course, a Muslim would shrug and say it is old news. After all, Jesus (Isa) is going to come back, simply to herald the Mahdi.

This message is a reply to:
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