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Author Topic:   News on Religion in Our Goverments
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 91 of 136 (634327)
09-20-2011 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by hooah212002
09-20-2011 6:04 PM


Re: Gay Ban LIfted
It's just that now they can come out and not be legally penalized for it.
At least this is a step in the right direction.
However, they can still get fucked with by fellow ignorant soldiers.
Maybe the ones who are getting F@#$ will now be able to stand up for themselves without fear of being discharged.
Think about it: in states where gay marriage was "legalized", did it stop hillbillies from gay bashing?
Reminds me of the civil rights movement. Somebody has to be willing to stand up in the face of injustice, regardless of the outcome.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by hooah212002, posted 09-20-2011 6:04 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by hooah212002, posted 09-20-2011 6:25 PM fearandloathing has seen this message but not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(2)
Message 92 of 136 (634328)
09-20-2011 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by hooah212002
09-20-2011 6:04 PM


Re: Gay Ban LIfted
As I understand it, the Defense Department has declared a zero tolerance policy for harassment of gay troops.
If that policy can be enforced anywhere, it will be in the military.
That said, harassment in general, quite aside from gay-baiting, is a major issue in the ranks. Like most tribes, all you have to be is different. In my day, for example, you didn't want to reveal high test scores, atheism, or political and moral reservations about military objectives.
But I still welcome this progress. It's one step of many.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by hooah212002, posted 09-20-2011 6:04 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 93 of 136 (634329)
09-20-2011 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by fearandloathing
09-20-2011 6:16 PM


Re: Gay Ban LIfted
Maybe the ones who are getting F@#$ will now be able to stand up for themselves without fear of being discharged.
If the fucking is good enough, they definitely cannot stand up for themselves and there will be plenty of discharging. ZING!
Anyways, yes, I agree it IS a step in the right direction. It never should have been implemented in the first place. However, we are still a long way from complete tolerance in the armed forces. And it is my subjective opinion that infantrymen are the ones who scored too low on the ASFAB to do anything else. Ignorance, stupidity and bigotry go hand in hand, IMO.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by fearandloathing, posted 09-20-2011 6:16 PM fearandloathing has seen this message but not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 94 of 136 (634991)
09-25-2011 11:51 AM


Seven scientists and other experts went to trial on manslaughter
Another off- topic story I don't think anyone will mind, this may be worthy or a thread of its own?
I just ran across this.
quote:
Seven scientists and other experts went on trial on manslaughter charges Tuesday for allegedly failing to sufficiently warn residents before a devastating 2009 earthquake that killed more than 300 people in central Italy.
The case is being closely watched by seismologists around the globe who insist it's impossible to predict earthquakes and dangerous to suggest otherwise, because seismologists will be discouraged from issuing any advice at all if they fear legal retaliation.
Ridiculous.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 95 of 136 (635170)
09-27-2011 2:33 PM


Only in the South.....
Jesus or jail? Alabama town offers options for serving time
Article writes:
Starting this week, under a new program called Operation ROC (Restore Our Community), local judges in Bay Minette, Alabama, will give those found guilty of misdemeanors the choice of serving out their time in jail, paying a fine or attending church each Sunday for a year.
What about current churchgoers who commit a misdemeanor?
Another, non CNN article about it:
"I have just two words for this ill-considered scheme: blatantly unconstitutional, said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United. Government simply can’t put people in a position where their only choice is Jesus or jail.
Bay Minette Police Chief Mike Rowland says 56 churches have agreed to take part in the program, dubbed Operation Restore Our Community. Rowland says the plan is legal because no one is forced to go to church — they can choose fines or incarceration instead.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-27-2011 2:40 PM hooah212002 has replied
 Message 101 by Omnivorous, posted 09-27-2011 7:15 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 96 of 136 (635173)
09-27-2011 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by hooah212002
09-27-2011 2:33 PM


Re: Only in the South.....
"No one is forced to go to church — they can choose fines or incarceration instead."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by hooah212002, posted 09-27-2011 2:33 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by hooah212002, posted 09-27-2011 2:44 PM Dr Adequate has not replied
 Message 98 by Rahvin, posted 09-27-2011 2:48 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 97 of 136 (635174)
09-27-2011 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Dr Adequate
09-27-2011 2:40 PM


Re: Only in the South.....
Is that supposed to make it somehow ok? It's a "get out of punishment" card for christians.....
{abe}
The letter goes on to say, The Program would be unconstitutional even if participants could, as the City has asserted, attend the religious service of their choice. For one, any such choice is purely theoretical: only churches participate in the Program and so in practice defendants must attend Christian services. In any event, the Program would violate the Constitution even if other religions did participate because the First Amendment also requires the government to remain neutral between religion and non-religion.
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-27-2011 2:40 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-27-2011 6:45 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 98 of 136 (635175)
09-27-2011 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Dr Adequate
09-27-2011 2:40 PM


Re: Only in the South.....
Indeed. Last I knew, when the choice is "do this, or go to jail," it counts as "mandatory."
Or is paying taxes now "optional," and we aren't in fact obligated under force of law to do so? Perhaps nobody is actually "forced" to refrain from theft and murder? Is the speed limit now just a "suggestion?"
I don;t mind alternative sentencing for first-time nonviolent offenders - in fact, I wholeheartedly support it! Community service, mandatory psychiatric evaluations, anger management courses, these and other programs can be extremely helpful and a better, cheaper solution than prison - after all, I'd rather have a productive citizen forced to do some community service rather than pay for a prison stay that's likely to turn that same person into a permanent drain on society.
But this program is ridiculous. Attending church and being quizzed afterward to make sure you're participating is government-enforced Christianity, full stop.
Which of course is why the courts will put a stop to it, quickly.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-27-2011 2:40 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4228 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 99 of 136 (635196)
09-27-2011 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by hooah212002
09-27-2011 2:44 PM


Re: Only in the South.....
have you ever been to church!?!
I would choose the fines in a heartbeat.
I fail to see how this is an establishment of a religion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by hooah212002, posted 09-27-2011 2:44 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by hooah212002, posted 09-27-2011 7:11 PM Artemis Entreri has replied
 Message 117 by Taq, posted 09-28-2011 5:53 PM Artemis Entreri has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 100 of 136 (635199)
09-27-2011 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Artemis Entreri
09-27-2011 6:45 PM


Re: Only in the South.....
I fail to see how this is an establishment of a religion.
If it were only mosques involved, you would. Oh, but wait: what about those of no faith? They get to "choose" punishment while those who already go to church get to......go to church for "punishment"? I didn't expect any religious persons to see how wrong it is when it is YOUR religion that is being pushed.
Who am I kidding: you're an admitted troll. Why bother.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-27-2011 6:45 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-27-2011 7:28 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 101 of 136 (635200)
09-27-2011 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by hooah212002
09-27-2011 2:33 PM


I Shall Be Released
I'm of two minds.
As a general miscreant, I like it, especially if I could visit a black Baptist church. The food is awesome, the music rocks, and the sisters are gorgeous. I do hate doing what I'm told, but I hate paying fines to the state or doing time even more.
As a matter of Constitutional principle, of course, it will be (and should be) stopped.
So, in conclusion, I'd accept the GOOJF card and complain about it later.
That's the American way.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by hooah212002, posted 09-27-2011 2:33 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by hooah212002, posted 09-27-2011 7:49 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4228 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 102 of 136 (635202)
09-27-2011 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by hooah212002
09-27-2011 7:11 PM


Re: Only in the South.....
If it were only mosques involved, you would. Oh, but wait: what about those of no faith? They get to "choose" punishment while those who already go to church get to......go to church for "punishment"? I didn't expect any religious persons to see how wrong it is when it is YOUR religion that is being pushed.
STRAWMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't go to church. I already stated in the previous post that I would choose the fines. try and keep up, ok?
Who am I kidding: you're an admitted troll. Why bother.
lulz, heck if you give up already, then I win. you are easy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by hooah212002, posted 09-27-2011 7:11 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by hooah212002, posted 09-27-2011 7:44 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 103 of 136 (635205)
09-27-2011 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Artemis Entreri
09-27-2011 7:28 PM


Re: Only in the South.....
STRAWMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't go to church. I already stated in the previous post that I would choose the fines. try and keep up, ok?
Ok, admittedly the first sentence could be construed as a possible strawman. However, it had nothing to do with whether or not YOU go to church. I'm glad you are ok with the choice to pay fines OR possibly go to a church (one that is alligned with your belief set). However, as someone of NO belief, I find it repulsive that someone of that belief set could just go about their sunday ritual for "punishment".

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-27-2011 7:28 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-28-2011 12:13 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 104 of 136 (635207)
09-27-2011 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Omnivorous
09-27-2011 7:15 PM


Re: I Shall Be Released
I can see your point. However, I find it ridiculous that going to church is equated with better community, hence the title of the program.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Omnivorous, posted 09-27-2011 7:15 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Omnivorous, posted 09-27-2011 8:03 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied
 Message 106 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-27-2011 8:06 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 105 of 136 (635208)
09-27-2011 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by hooah212002
09-27-2011 7:49 PM


Re: I Shall Be Released
hooah writes:
I can see your point. However, I find it ridiculous that going to church is equated with better community, hence the title of the program.
Oh, I agree completely.
But you don't gain converts, or even good will, by frog-marching people to your church.
So I'm amused at the picture I have in my mind of scofflaws showing up in church (to the discomfiture of the congregation, no doubt), happy to dodge the fine/time dilemma but ticked off by being told what to do (as we miscreants generally are), and possibly corrupting the good morals of the choir members they break bread with later at the fish fry or around the gospel bird.
On principle, you're absolutely right; I'm just charmed at the notion of getting out of jail free and devilishly amused by the likely unintended consequences

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by hooah212002, posted 09-27-2011 7:49 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
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