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Author | Topic: Nature's innate intelligence. Does it exist? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Panda Member (Idle past 3712 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
zi ko writes:
I was not quoting you. I put it in the order the eminent scientist have written it. Don't change please what i have said. Here it is again: Hearing: I don’t give it the original meaning of the word (namely, the ability to perceive sound by detecting vibrations through an organ such as the ear. What I really mean is: in response to auditory factors, a naturally inside organism pre-existing mechanism, and by force of chemistry and physics, causes changes in the genome. So I think of it as a mechanism, but not hearing in any traditional sense. If an animal can hear: why can't cells hear? Edited by Panda, : No reason given.If I were you And I wish that I were you All the things I'd do To make myself turn blue
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zi ko Member (Idle past 3619 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
Why not this:
I t could be this way. But you then have to proceed a bit further.1) Cells exist 2) Cells are exposed to a chemical or mechanical phenomena 3) A reaction occurs resulting in a chemical or mechanical response No need to attribute the cells with "thinking" at all.as: chemical and mechanical phenomena from environment can regulate evolution.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2492 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
I t could be this way. But you then have to proceed a bit further. as: chemical and mechanical phenomena from environment can regulate evolution. That still would not require intelligence. For example, if an organism were exposed to some chemical mutagen, the offspring it produced would likely have more mutations than the average offspring of a non-exposed individual. That doesn't require any thinking on anyone's part. That's the chemical result of the exposure.
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nwr Member Posts: 6408 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
zi ko writes:
In the quoted sentence, you mention life. But the topic title seems to apply to all of nature.Life is full of examples showing intelligence. Are you only talking about nature as intelligent? Or are you saying that rocks, tides, hurricanes, earthquakes, etc are intelligent. You need to be clear about that. Most of your posts in this thread seem to be about cells. What's the point of attaching the label "intelligent" to what they do? Surely the goal of science should be to find out what they do, rather than to find excuses to attach ill defined terminology.
zi ko writes:
Yes, he does. But Shapiro isn't all that clear on what he means by "intelligence". In my opinion, some of what Shapiro says is a tad overstated.J. Shapiro talks about such intelligence inside cells. Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
I think what he is trying to say is that a cell, although it doesn’t have intelligence of its own, (although I don’t know why he started talking about a cell seeing), does have intelligence built into its function.
Here is a definition of innate from the net. Emphasis mine:Innate 1. existing in one from birth; inborn; native: innate musical talent. 2. inherent in the essential character of something: an innate defect in the hypothesis. 3. originating in or arising from the intellect or the constitution of the mind, rather than learned through experience: an innate knowledge of good and evil. So, in answer to the title question of whether there exists an innate intelligence in nature, I would have to say yes. The question that goes beyond this topic is whether or not that innate intelligence evolved from an intelligent or non-intelligent source.Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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Taq Member Posts: 9972 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5 |
Are you only talking about nature as intelligent? Or are you saying that rocks, tides, hurricanes, earthquakes, etc are intelligent. Using the zi ko proof, if man is intelligent why not rocks?
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I think what he is trying to say is that a cell, although it doesn’t have intelligence of its own, (although I don’t know why he started talking about a cell seeing), does have intelligence built into its function. What intelligence is built into the function of a cell?Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
jar writes: What intelligence is built into the function of a cell Here is a site that talks about it but I suppose it isn't conclusive. http://www.brianjford.com/a-10-mensamag-cells.pdf For that matter plant life doesn't have a brain, but the plant turns to the sun, draws mositure from the soil etc.Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Too funny.
Sorry but none of that involves intelligence, it is just simple mechanics.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Panda Member (Idle past 3712 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
GDR writes:
The only place that cellular intelligence is mentioned is in the title/heading. Here is a site that talks about it but I suppose it isn't conclusive. He actually seems to be writing about cellular memory (which I saw best described as "It has not been easy to find any article that either does not condemn the idea as total mumbo jumbo, or, while supporting the ideas, still makes it sound like it is mumbo jumbo.").But memory is not intelligence - my PC has memory. If I were you And I wish that I were you All the things I'd do To make myself turn blue
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
Panda writes: He actually seems to be writing about cellular memory (which I saw best described as "It has not been easy to find any article that either does not condemn the idea as total mumbo jumbo, or, while supporting the ideas, still makes it sound like it is mumbo jumbo.").But memory is not intelligence - my PC has memory. I'm not trying to be clever here, but isn't memory stored intelligence?
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Panda Member (Idle past 3712 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
GDR writes:
As in 'military intelligence'? I'm not trying to be clever here, but isn't memory stored intelligence? Then yes, memory could be considered to be stored intelligence. But the document you linked refers to DNA from one human affecting the preferences of another human. (His use of the word 'memory' is kind of metaphorical.) And the intelligence that Jar was asking about was not (if I understood correctly) intelligence as in news/information.If I were you And I wish that I were you All the things I'd do To make myself turn blue
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
No I didn't mean intelligence in that sense either. The way I saw it is that IMHO there is information within a cell that causes it to react to certain stimuli.
For example a leaf turning to the sun. It seems to me that stored intelligence such as that would be considered innate intelligence.Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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For example a leaf turning to the sun. It seems to me that stored intelligence such as that would be considered innate intelligence. What stored intelligence? The plant turns towards the sun because of mechanics, no intelligence involved. It is no different than an ice cube melting in the sun.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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