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Author | Topic: Nature's innate intelligence. Does it exist? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Panda Member (Idle past 3740 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Straggler writes:
In my honest (but uneducated) opinion: No - the brain cells are no different. They are affected by external inputs, but ultimately they will always respond in exactly the same way to the exact same stimuli. Are brain cells any different to what you have described above? Don't they obey the laws of physics? Can they behave in any other way?If I was to kick you, your response is already established in your brain. (I realised while writing my previous posts that there was a thin line between the bio-chemical machine that is a plant and the bio-chemical machine that is a human. The main difference I saw was the brain's cognitive abilities.)
Straggler writes:
Not being restricted by those things is not the criteria for intelligence. If NOT being restricted by these things is the criteria for "intelligence" then can we really say that our brains, and thus we, are "intelligent"....? Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given.If I were you And I wish that I were you All the things I'd do To make myself turn blue
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Straggler Member (Idle past 93 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Panda writes: "NOT being restricted by these things" is not the criteria for intelligence. Fair enough. So what is? If human brains result in "intelligence" but individual cells don't what is it that we mean by "intelligence" in this context? I am not agreeing with (loony) Ziko. Just trying to prompt those who oppose him to think about what it is they actually mean.....
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Panda Member (Idle past 3740 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Straggler writes: Fair enough.So what is? quote:None of those seem to describe a plant turning to the sun. Straggler writes:
Zi ko's definition of 'intelligence' seems to be 'unknown and unevidenced mechanism'.
If human brains result in "intelligence" but individual cells don't what is it that we mean by "intelligence" in this context? Straggler writes: Yes - sometimes I get complacent and need a kick. Just trying to prompt those who oppose him to think about what it is they actually mean..... Edited by Panda, : No reason given.If I were you And I wish that I were you All the things I'd do To make myself turn blue
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Straggler Member (Idle past 93 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Panda writes: Yes - sometimes I get complacent and need a kick. Well consider yourself kicked!! At which point I will leave you and others to confront ziko's particular brand of silliness.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Fortunately a human brain is not just one cell, but rather a fairly complex network of cells. While no individual cell can be said to be capable of either though or intelligence the rather complex machine called a brain can.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Straggler Member (Idle past 93 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
OK. How?
Isn't it just a mass of cells responding to stimuli and acting oit the laws of physics? In what way (to pursue my devils advocate stance) is it not just a more complex variant of plants involuntarily turning towards the Sun?
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Because it is capable of NOT turning to face the sun.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Taq Member Posts: 10077 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
There is here a tedency to oversimplification and using exambles no analogues to each other. That is exactly what YOU are guilty of. You are trying to compare human intelligence to deterministic pathways in single cells. They are not analogs. They are very different.
It is memory, decisin making, repairing, ineraction between information units,etc. There is no decision making in a single cell. That is what separates human intelligence and the actions of a single cell. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
Panda writes: In my honest (but uneducated) opinion: No - the brain cells are no different. They are affected by external inputs, but ultimately they will always respond in exactly the same way to the exact same stimuli.If I was to kick you, your response is already established in your brain.(I realised while writing my previous posts that there was a thin line between the bio-chemical machine that is a plant and the bio-chemical machine that is a human. The main difference I saw was the brain's cognitive abilities.) Hi Panda I'll respond to your reply To Straggler as he has already replied to your reply to me much more thoughtfully than I could have. You are saying that the brain cells are only responsive by external inputs and will always respond the same way to the same stimuli in much the same way as plants. It feels good to go out in the hot sun. All our external inputs tell us that. However, we also know that if we stay out there any length of time we'll get sunburned and it will be painful. A plant will always do the same thing. However, we are different. Without somebody telling us otherwise we would feel that it is fine to go out in the sun for long periods and would likely do so - once. Then we learn that even though our external inputs tell us it is good, it is actually bad for us. For us to learn not to do it again we not only need the memory of the first time but have to intelligently make a decision to get out of the sun to avoid sunburn. Where is that intelligence if it isn't in our cells? Edited by GDR, : No reason given.Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1531 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Intelligence of cells?.............a spermatozoa will propel itself with microtubuals fluctuating action potentials in its tail. The human muscle fibers fire and release due to biochemical and electrical impulses. biochemistry is biochemistry. What I find interesting is there is fungus that uses a ant to do it's bidding.
Is the fungus intelligent? New Zombie-Ant Fungi Found | Parasites & Mind Control | Live Science Edited by 1.61803, : added question
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
GDR writes: Where is that intelligence if it isn't in our cells? There is no intelligence involved in your example that can "be" anywhere. They are learned responses but they are not innate to a cell anymore than whether a one or zero is stored in a particular bit.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1531 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
GDR writes:
Intelligence is in the eye of the beholder.imo One cell does not a brain make, yet a collective of neurons operating within the collective of bone, muscle, tissue can make create a Iphone. Where is that intelligence if it isn't in our cells? At what level do humans ascribe intelligence to other organisms?And is AI something that is different than "natures" Intelligence? Are we back to this supernatural is natural business?
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Taq Member Posts: 10077 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
What I find interesting is there is fungus that uses a ant to do it's bidding. Is the fungus intelligent? The fungus does not bid the ant to do anything. There is no decision making process in the fungus. The chemicals released by the fungus cause the ant to act in a specific manner. Neither the fungus nor the ant has any choice in the matter. That is what they do, just like a rain drop has no say in falling from a cloud.
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Taq Member Posts: 10077 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
At what level do humans ascribe intelligence to other organisms? When those organisms have a decision making process that allows them to predict future consequences of their actions and actions currently unfolding in the environment. Single celled organisms are only reactive. They have set responses to set stimuli. There is no decision making process.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1531 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Hi Taq,
Taq writes: Umm-hmmm....so kinda like the neuron and synapses in your brain arent telling you to type that clap trap eh?(kiddin) You just do what you do. At what point then does intelligence emerge? ***I just saw your answer below*** so disregard. : The fungus does not bid the ant to do anything. There is no decision making process in the fungus. The chemicals released by the fungus cause the ant to act in a specific manner. Neither the fungus nor the ant has any choice in the matter. That is what they do, just like a rain drop has no say in falling from a cloud. Edited by 1.61803, : No reason given.
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